I know my black Lab knows the time for dinner. We generally feed her around 5pm. Around 4:30 she starts making her presence known in what area we happen to be in the house. She bangs up against things to make noise as she rarely barks. If we happen to be chilling in the bedroom she jumps on the bed and it’s not to lay down with us it’s more of a concerted effort to make sure a nap is over or doesn’t begin because she knows it’s time for her to fed. Animals can’t tell time as we all know but this mutt knows when it’s time for din din. That’s how we fall into the trap of believing animals think like us as the Doc said. We of course laugh and think it’s cute but for her it’s serious business. She must feel a hunger pang and it must come around the same time everyday as she has been always fed around the same time daily her whole life. It’s a product of her being trained by us. We have no fear of her ever attacking us which would transfer to our belief that somehow all dogs would feel that way. Great essay Doc. We love our Lab,Bella though like she is our child and she’s spoiled like one too. Lol
Yes, dogs have an infallible inner clock when it comes to 'dinner time'. I can see it every time the clocks change: extra joy when they go forward because suddenly dinner is early - and deep outrage when they go back because suddenly dinner is late. It never fails and was especially impressive for our Big Dog, our food-obsessed first collie.
When he was older and on medication, he 'learned' that one pill came at 4.30pm - in a piece of cheese because just a pill was 'the horror', he never took it. Once he was off that course of pills, he still expected (forcefully expressed with a heavy paw on one's knee) that pice of cheese at 4.30pm precisely ... He's gone these many years now, but I still love him so much.
I’ve had Labs my entire life and this one is the sweetest one I’ve had. She’s pretty dumb as far as Labs go but it’s what makes her unique. I’ve found that dogs definitely have their own personas. Some wish to please you while others just do their own thing. I can’t imagine my life without a Labrador in it. My wife and I are both on our second marriage as we had previous lives with kids and all that. This Dog is our kid. She gets groomed once a month and knows when you tell her she’s going. The excitement she gets destroys the house. My wife and I actually grew up together as our parents were best friends and they lived about 3 houses away. Life takes crazy turns but the happiness we have now is more than anything I could’ve imagined.
Oh, how that chimes with me: replace 'labs' with 'collies' and it's exactly the same. Mine were/are all rescues, from dog shelters, so one of the more 'interesting' parts always was to learn about the fears and foibles they'd learned before they came to us. Oh, and no matter what: 'bath time' always was a call for them to vanish and hide. Doing the actual deed needed lots of bribes and the we had to watch four-legged tornados rush through the house, as if to get rid of the horror of a war shape! And that when water in any other form - shallow muddy puddle to cold lake to rushing stream, ditch or river, exerted a magnetic force - and they were in it, one way or the other. Some to swim, some to mess about and one - my beloved Princess - to just daintily wet her paws ... Happy time, never to be forgotten ...
We have a dog that hates going to the vet. When we go there, which is quite infrequent and usually no more than once a year, well BEFORE we turn into the parking area where the building is she somehow knows where we are headed and she starts howling in protest. I really don't know how she could tell where we are!
Good thoughts James Schwartz~! While it is true that animals may not be able to "tell time" by reading a clock or watch, they, like us, are all natural creatures of habit and as such "we" (animals) all understand the general concept of "time" in very similar ways~! So, it is really not that much of a stretch to understand that "telling time" is actually a very natural universally shared tendency for all God's critters in one way or another~! Many similarities in behavior and even "thinking" do actually exist between human-like creatures and those others in the animal Kingdom, however "we" (humans) are obliged to learn the mindset of other animals, and the other animals have no such obligation in learning what goes on in the often-crazy minds of humans~! Pavlov's dogs proved a great many things that are absolutely critical to comprehend to this very day ;-) The human concept of "time" is actually ONLY a bizarre construct of humans, and NOT one of the natural world in which we all exist. So, the real question is what really is "time" and what is our human construct of "time" (watching our clocks and time pieces just "mindlessly" constantly ticking away)~? As humans are very intentionally lured further and further away from our natural world, by very evil forces with bad intentions, in what is laughingly referred to as "civilization", "we" are the ones who are allowing ourselves to be disconnected from our natural world and the absolutely true wonders and miracles of life itself~! How seriously strange and unusual these creatures called "humans" really are~! Ha! Have a great weekend~! Sincerely, Mike
I can relate to this because our dogs are like our babies too! One of the is part border collie and really keeps us on schedule with being fed and getting her biscuit treat in the morning. She grumbles at us if we miss a beat!
My current dog, who has been with us just shy of 1 year, is really schooling me on the real capacity of his mind. Rotties don’t do great in heat so I’ve learned to be vigilant so they won’t suffer heatstroke over the years. This guy is waking me up early in the morning, expressing (nonverbally), “Hurry up! We have an hour before it gets too hot!” Trust me, I am NOT a morning person so my dogs learn fast not to disturb me in the morning. This behavior isn’t regular. And he’s right! I can’t be mad about it!
My cats are the same. And interestingly the time change DST doesn't seem to affect them, at least they don't seem to notice they're being fed an hour later. I suspect it's partly based on our own activity, our time getting up in the morning, going to bed, and so forth automatically changes their internal clocks. 🤷🏼♀️
My dog on the other hand knows no set time to eat. It may be mid morning, after a walk or late night before bed. She decides, then she talks. I respond. Sometimes its just once a day, sometimes two, but I know she's asking for food. I haven't grown to think she has learned from me, but the other way around. She's a Schnauzer.
Cats are the same way. Over time, I think they "know" some words (treat, hungry, come, out, it's okay, safe. etc.) and they respond. They develop certain behavior patterns as well when there is a reward involved and they know how to communicate with body language (cats have no muscles in their face so you can't 'read' them via facial expressions) because they know you will respond. Sometimes it's just a stare. They don't "plan", but rather live in the present moment. As an aside, they can "see" things I can't see. Sometimes, for no reason, he stares off into space, suddenly startles, and takes off running like a bat out of hell and hides under a bed. Cats have memory too, as all animals do. I recently found a black rat snake in my house. It was there for 3 days before my son came and safely removed it. Oreo was curious, but terrified of it at the same time. After the snake was gone, Oreo continued to be cautious, looked around, and moved slowly and carefully until I could assure him; "It's safe now. The snake is gone. It's okay". That was over a week ago and he remembers).
The biggest thing separating humans from animals is the spiritual component. While we’re physically alike, spiritually we’re different — which allows us to make an impact on our world.
Unfortunately we can do both good and bad — and there’s been a lot of bad spiritual energy in our world, but with awareness of this aspect of reality, we can reverse course.
In this essay, I chose not to focus on the spiritual, but on physiological/behavioral differences in the brain. But I agree entirely with your point of view.
Less complicated, I’d say. Animals don’t need complicated metaphysical models to make meaning of life. They are mire like Zen minded, or Taoist: they rest in it via direct experience. They taste the Ultimate, participate directly in it, not s part from it trying to get back like humans.
I’d say our capacity for spirituality emerges from the integration of our animal (relational) vs analytical mind. However, this doesn’t mean animals don’t have their own contribution. As a Buddhist, it is entirely reasonable for me to regard my animal friends, domestic and otherwise, as Buddhas embodying that way to guide me. My spiritual development would’ve been distorted without the influence of the non-human world.
I cannot totally agree with this, though there is some truth to it.
A human body is MUCH different from most animals bodies, in that it can use language and make and use tools in ways that animals just can't because of their physical limitations. Most spiritual beings are attracted to human bodies because of their capabilities. Some choose "lower" animals for various reasons, and animals like elephants, the whale family, the ape family, horses, dogs, cats are often quite intelligent and spiritual when they are properly communicated with.
This is a whole area of knowledge that humans have been purposely kept away from and are just now beginning to really confront and deal with. It is more important to us than most realize.
Many years ago, I was blessed with a beautiful tall young black thoroughbred horse and about that time I also acquired a very special young African Grey parrot, both of these additions to my life resulted in me slowly learning to change my thinking process from that of a "lowly" human to one where I started to learn how to think from the perspective of animals~! I always loved animals, however until I started to learn compassionately about the ways that animals really think and react in different situations, that are SO often times contrary to the way that humans think, my own behavior and reactions were often times creating issues with my critters that were not intended or desirable. Well, my life underwent some difficult changes for some years back then and it Ironically gave me time to learn a tremendous amount from my horse and parrot over quite a few years. To my great surprise I actually started to better understand and even communicate with all animals, except of course for the human animals that are FAR more difficult and challenging to deal with ;-) Only those who have had lengthy experiences with parrots would really understand just how intelligent they can be, and African Grey parrots do have a well-earned reputation of being some of the most Intelligent. My horse also became a great friend because we both eventually learned to communicate on a very different level because of all of the things that I was taught by my non-human family over our early years together. In fact, I could relate many wonderful experiences that we had as we navigated this crazy life in such a troubled country, but when we eventually found ourselves in a new home on the beautiful coast of the Pacific Northwest, I had the great gift of being able to spend many years on beaches with my horse. I have been a natural born horseman all of my life, but until I was able to spend countless hours on the beach with my horse I had never learned much. It was not long before my horse started to love the beach life, and she soon started to enjoy lying down in the warm sand much like we human like creatures often do. Before long, and without any real intended plan or goal, I found myself laying on the beach against my saddle listening to my "Walkman" radio playing music, as my horse was lying next to me with her head in my lap often for hours at a time~! Even though I usually made efforts to be away from the crowds that frequented the beaches, we always attracted a lot of attention because the sight of "us" just enjoying the beach was nothing that the majority of people could easily process in their human minds. Cell phones were becoming common about that time and soon I learned that when we were on the beach the local police department was getting inundated with "emergency calls" about "a man trapped under a horse on the beach", which soon resulted in numerous police dispatchers having to be trained to calm the tourists who had become hysterical at the sight of what had become to us our very normal and usual routine~! Yes, Dr. Malone is making a VERY important point here in this article for all of us to take seriously, because I have found that even for people who do not like or appreciate animals, learning to appreciate our fellow "beings" (human or otherwise) by doing our best to consider their Individual point of view and what they may be thinking, is of the greatest value for those who are interested in a better world~! This great article has a FAR greater and important meaning in our world to consider~! Enjoy and embrace the complexities of our existence, for we are all truly engaged in a grand learning experience~! Sincerely, Mike
That is a fascinating story: I know I have to go.. darn it.. but also. I know about the African Parrots. and for sure.. CROWS TALK.. BLACK CROWS.. LOL.. I heard them "talking" (not English) whatever.. at the SAFEWAY near the FOOD DUMPSTER.. YUP it is said they have the intellect of a 3 year old. OH WOW. I LOOKED IT UP.. now it is said 7 year old. well not sure about that.. but https://youtu.be/7aWL2iEb6y4?si=Q9vY39HxmqlysC0F. I am sure that African Gray Parrot was really fun and amazing. Horses don't seem to be very smart to me but I have never owned one. I have ridden and didn't like it.. not sure why. but anyway thanks for sharing. :)
Thank you for your appreciation & comments "Science"~!
Oh yes, African Grey parrots are known for their extremely high Intelligence and my beloved bird would kiss folks on the lips, Boggie boarded behind boats, rode my horse, travelled more land, water, and air miles than many humans ever will, and also had a respectable vocabulary. They don't just say words, African Grey parrots more often than not speak Intelligently within a conversation, much like an 8 or 9 year old child would (if the child was raised well that is). I have no idea why she didn't say any swear words, but she was definitely a good bird :) The entire Black Bird family have high Intelligence levels and yes, they actually are capable of limited talking (even in English). We own a small farm/ranch here in the Pacific NW and we free range many chickens, ducks, and geese, so it is common for us to have predator issues. Years ago, we learned that even the smallest single Blackbird was easily capable of dominating and harassing several massive Bald Eagles at one time and of course dealing successfully with other birds in the Vulture family, to drive them away from their territory. So, we have a deal with our Raven friends here that they can have some of our chicken and duck eggs, as long as they run off the Vultures that would prey on our flock, which they definitely do because the Black Bird family are extremely territorial ;-) Naturalists always know science best~! Ha! The truth is that horses are extremely Intelligent as well, but mostly within their "natural need" ability as "fight or flight" critters, so that is why humans have difficulties understanding their true Intellectual level. My horse had top world class thoroughbred bloodlines, and she was a seriously advanced riders' horse to be sure, but when she was not under saddle and I was riding her bareback she knew to be more mellow because she obviously loved me and her life... That always astounded me as it was absolute proof of a higher Intelligence level in a horse ;-) I am not an "adrenaline junkie", but blowing down an appropriate beach on a world class thoroughbred race horse, especially riding bareback, is an experience that the majority of humans should NEVER attempt, but the few of us who are capable and have done it will always count it as one of our greatest times in life~! Ha! An understatement to be sure ;-) I never let my horse see the racetrack and I saved her from that potentially ugly experience, but I am no stranger to horse racing, and I always knew that she was definitely capable of blowing many other racehorses right off of the track when she was in her prime~! Over the years I ran across a number of folks who took great pride in their horses' ability to run/race, but no one EVER dared to challenge my horse, especially after they saw her move~! She was born to run, and she loved just chillin' on the beach as well. A perfect horse for an old lifeguard beach bum and I sure do miss her, but I almost got her to make 30 years old, which is a long-time fir that breed of horse ;-) Ha! She also had many more land, water, and air miles logged in than many humans ever will~! Flying horses is a challenge BTW~! So, I am sorry that your horseback riding experience was not so great, but obviously many activities like that need to be undertaken with the proper due care and proper supervision of good knowledgeable folks or the outcome can rob the Individual of one of life's best experiences~! Keep an open mind and the world will enlighten you with new and wonderful experiences~! Have a great weekend~! Sincerely, Mike
I love your mind Doctor Malone. Thank you for that fascinating reminder. I often wonder also how other species perceive our world differently than do we. How even a dog's eyesight, senses of smell and hearing make for a different world than what we perceive. And then when we consider non-mammalian species.....
But I would not limit our consideration of of other species' reactions or perceptions. How about humans who don't think or react normally to things? Such as liberals and other creatures of the Left?
I hope Dr. Jill is alright, & feeling better. I understand taking care to make sure the Mother had water & food, but like you mention, Momma bird reacted immediately & quickly, to protect her baby. I actually think in images, & remember when my Daughter’s dog, Ammo, part Belgium Malanois (sp), & a few mutt-mixes, would come up to me when I sat down, she would lay her head on the chair arm, & look at me with her beautiful, brown eyes, & ask for some attention. I saw love in her eyes, & she was so comforting to be around. I have that image in my brain & always see Ammo- every day. Unfortunately, she got cancer; she had treatments & lived for about a year, but passed one night & we lost her. It makes me cry just trying to type. She seemed human to me, & her owners, were always there for her. She is missed so much!
My local farmer raises sheep and during one of her tours we met the sheep and lambs and she told of the ewe that her daughter raised years ago, who still brings her lambs to her personally to introduce them, when they are born. I believe that animals come to teach us lessons and help us through sad times. Sometimes they are the cause of sad times, or unpleasant reminders that will save us from ourselves. Without a very special stray, my eyes would not have been opened to the veterinary industrial complex, (not that I called it that at the time). The suffering that the vets were prepared to cause that cat was huge. The advantage that they tried to take of their perception of what our compassion should look like, (untold numbers of tests and treatments, denigrating any other more natural suggestions, and their blind adherence to "the science"). was appalling to watch. In the end we stepped in and took th poor cat to someone who could end his suffering. That taught us a lot about animal suffering and the people who will exploit it to delay a kind despatch, all to save the pain of the human in that moment.
In many ways, so many of us have a slightly misplaced attachment, but we are always the apex species whose pleasure and privilege it is to steward the animal world. It gets us in trouble sometime. Poor Dr Jill. I bet that hurt like the dickens. I would have found it incredibly upsetting, and maybe the title to this essay could also be, "My incredible, compassionate, tender-hearted wife suffering the results of her loving impulse to care, never fails to touch my heart deeply".
Oh, it is difficult sometimes seeing an animal suffering, & when “our Ammo” was initially diagnosed with cancer, one thing I remember a vet telling my Daughter & Son-in-Law, getting Ammo spade caused one of her nipples to be infected? I was not sure if that had truth or not; Ammo was never pregnant of course, & I never understood the vets’ explanation. But, I feel Dr. Jill was of course just doing what came naturally for her, to take care of this new Momma bird. It is very heartwarming indeed, but also, a “lesson learned” I believe.
I wonder how? If there is one thing I am kicking myself for more and more in my life, it is not asking why/how/could you share your data source with me/what makes you say that?
I am ambidextrous and use mental images to help me remember numbers, addresses etc. I think in words when I am learning something and then I create the image in my mind of what I’ve learned, to reinforce the concept on my memory. I tend to take notes of important items as well - is that a visual version of thinking in words? LOL.
I always picture people before recall or bring up their name. Particularly people I don't interact with often. At 74 I rely on this visualizing more as many people in knew I might not have seen for decades. Problem is they are old now too and may not look much like they used to. (unlike me who hasn't aged a bit - until I look in a mirror).
I had an Akita. We went to a store and I took him out of the car (on leash) to walk him so he could pee. A man appeared out of nowhere and bent over him and grabbed his head to pet him. He got bit on the hand. I put the dog back in the car and asked why he did that. He said "I thought he was friendly." I said "you should know never to come up to a dog you don't know and who doesn't know you". I always carried a 1st aid kit in the car, so I cleaned and bandaged his bit. He demanded proof the dog had his rabies shots. As it turned out, he uses the same Vet I do so he could check it out. The vet read him out saying the same thing I told him about approaching animals. Akitas are as close to having a wolf as I would ever want. I leash walked him 3 to 5 miles a day in aggregate because off leash he would take off on adventures and get in trouble. Even though we had 80 acres he would not stay on the property if "free" to run. We also had cats some outdoor cats and some that could come in the house. The Akita recognized them as part of the pack, but stray cats he would kill if they came after his cats. As much as I loved that dog, I would never have another one.
On the human side of things, a person that can visualize something, be it new cutting edge or an old standard properly scaled, and then put what they visualized into a physical reality can be extremely successful.
We all should lift our eyes to see the world around us. There was a story of a man that one day found a gold coin on the ground. He couldn’t believe what he had found. He spent his whole life looking down trying to find other coins, which at times he did. The story though is about all of the beauty this world has to offer that he missed out on. I think this goes to your essay Dr. Malone. We need to use our eyes and our brain to create an image.
Your experience with dealing with different types of animals creates thoughts and images of how things at your farm should be handled, it’s an invaluable tool.
In my trade of building things, I’ve found being able to see something that is scaled properly, is a standard of what you would see, and then physically building it is invaluable.
Both are similar in that using our eyes and our brain to create an image, a plan, how to move forward is in my opinion knowledge. We also all learn from our mistakes.
So interesting! I've read (cannot remember the book or author because I've read so many on the topic) that the difference between animals and humans is God, and how He made us with a sense of right and wrong that animals don't possess. Side note: we had a pair of guineas who squawked loudly and constantly. And as annoying as they could be, I was deeply hurt when they took it upon themselves to move across the street and live at our neighbors with his emus. I felt like "what did I do to make you leave me?" 😂
That is such an interesting essay. Personally, I have recently discovered that I have aphantasia..large inability to visualize anything,! I am an equine body worker and have my own horses. I have always had issues with instructors telling me to visualize, say a dressage test or what I was asking the horse to do. I have had success with ground work and I do seem to ,"hear" the horses when I am working with them or doing bodywork. Excellent description and food for thought especially for those who have limited interactions with animals. It is all fascinating! Thank you!
First, we wish Jill a quick recovery. We often leaned carefully over domestic bunnies to trim their nails, so we know how quickly an unprepared human can receive a bite or a kick when forgetting how to think like our animal friends.
Because we write most of the day, we think in words. But we also think in pictures, visualizing ideas (especially in the shower). So, a bit of both!
While living in San Diego County, we were honored and humbled to own and train a llama, who lived with other llamas at two different boarding locations, one where he was born, and another where visiting him was more convenient.
We learned training techniques from first ranch owner John Mallon (http://johnmallonclinics.net/, very old website) and his then-wife, who used horse training theory to think like a llama, for that's what we had to do to communicate effectively with our prey animal friend. Thanks to John's teaching us how to put ourselves in the llama's pajamas (so to speak), we and our llama ultimately became well-trained. We often did llama PR on San Diego trails and even in a pet store once.
We taught Bandit (aka Bandito) to pick up his feet on command (even in an open field), have his nails trimmed, stand still, allow us to brush his teeth (who does that!), back up, turn, jump over small obstacles without overtaking the handler, pop into and out of our minivan when asked, and more. He stoically allowed us to treat him for a chronic hay-induced jaw abscess. We couldn't have asked for a smarter and more wonderful hiking companion. But, it all boiled down to thinking like a llama, not like a human, and not being greedy about what we asked him to do.
We used similar approaches when working with our rescue bunny friends.
For great insights into thinking in pictures, check out Temple Grandin's 1995 book, Thinking in Pictures (https://a.co/d/5BjgntK). Grandin is an autistic woman, who feels she can "see through a cow's eyes." She became an influential designer of slaughterhouses and livestock restraint systems that reduced stress on the animals just before their lives ended. She has great insight into human-animal relations. All because she thinks in pictures but fortunately can translate her visual thoughts into words.
Beautiful essay, Dr Malone, thank you! It's especially important to teach little children to "think dog" and not 'think person' when approaching a dog - although many humans could also profit from such training! After all, dogs do have teeth which can do untold damage to a human, adult or toddler.
This is across all species, really. Horses a very good example - they are prey animals, we are predators (and they never forget that). When you see someone that can ask a horse to do all kinds of advanced behaviors that seems like pure magic, it means that human never acts like a predator or asks like a predator, and the horse believes they are always safe when with their human as a companion. Don't limit thinking like another species just to dogs, you humans out there!
I couldn't agree more: this sin't limited to dogs, as anyone with connections to other animals, as you describe for Horses, knows. Cats also come to mind, and for me, bids - garden birds.
Big bird watchers here - eat us out of house and home, they are awesome. The newest hatchlings make you smile, and yes, I have daily conversations with my older black cat about his proclivities.
My experiences with horses are much more rewarding than with dogs, because it is so much more difficult to communicate with horses. We are nothing like them. Dogs have been with us for so long that they teach us and thoroughly understand us. Also, we are both predators.
Definitely images and emotions that connect to all OF my relations. WITH a few TIAs that I've had since Covid, you need to add in a little bit MORE of laybilitity On my reactions to the situations these days OF all myOUR relations😢
Thank goodness for people like you and Dr. MerleMERYL Nass attempting to keep us informed with both sides of the stories.
We can never forget all of our front line doctor scientist and humanitarians alive and dead throughout the centuries THAT riskED everything to do the same for HUMANITY.
Thank you for this interesting discussion. Have to admit I'm not one for monkeys. Watched some through a window at the zoo. Encountered some running loose, prompting me to put up my car windows.
I would add expectations to your list. Have experienced feeding ferals and deer. They have internal watches. I have do feed at the same hour each day. They appear at that hour. Yesterday, feeding the clients deer friends, I found myself surrounded by antlered deer. I just do what I usually do. No words or ackbowledgements. Rarely we eye to eye. Just curiousity. No problems.
Cats and domestic birds are another story. My experiences with dogs have generally been influenced by their relations with their owners.
Your description re our brain functions give me pause. Several strikes to the head, including within the last year (with warfarin). Makes me wonder how I'm managing.
Anyway off to my AM client visit with the super cat, fish and deer. Almost over.
Have a good day and wishing Dr Jill speedy healing!
Deer do become rather calm. We have fed them here for some 15-16 yrs now and are well known by them. One doe has developed a taste for bird seed so if she is here when I go bird feeding she walks right up and pushes her nose into the seed bucket. And now that has encouraged a shyer one to ask very politely for some seed too
I know my black Lab knows the time for dinner. We generally feed her around 5pm. Around 4:30 she starts making her presence known in what area we happen to be in the house. She bangs up against things to make noise as she rarely barks. If we happen to be chilling in the bedroom she jumps on the bed and it’s not to lay down with us it’s more of a concerted effort to make sure a nap is over or doesn’t begin because she knows it’s time for her to fed. Animals can’t tell time as we all know but this mutt knows when it’s time for din din. That’s how we fall into the trap of believing animals think like us as the Doc said. We of course laugh and think it’s cute but for her it’s serious business. She must feel a hunger pang and it must come around the same time everyday as she has been always fed around the same time daily her whole life. It’s a product of her being trained by us. We have no fear of her ever attacking us which would transfer to our belief that somehow all dogs would feel that way. Great essay Doc. We love our Lab,Bella though like she is our child and she’s spoiled like one too. Lol
Cats are pretty time wise too. Sadly ours know EXACTLY when it is 4:30 a.m. and timefor me to ante up.
Yes, dogs have an infallible inner clock when it comes to 'dinner time'. I can see it every time the clocks change: extra joy when they go forward because suddenly dinner is early - and deep outrage when they go back because suddenly dinner is late. It never fails and was especially impressive for our Big Dog, our food-obsessed first collie.
When he was older and on medication, he 'learned' that one pill came at 4.30pm - in a piece of cheese because just a pill was 'the horror', he never took it. Once he was off that course of pills, he still expected (forcefully expressed with a heavy paw on one's knee) that pice of cheese at 4.30pm precisely ... He's gone these many years now, but I still love him so much.
I’ve had Labs my entire life and this one is the sweetest one I’ve had. She’s pretty dumb as far as Labs go but it’s what makes her unique. I’ve found that dogs definitely have their own personas. Some wish to please you while others just do their own thing. I can’t imagine my life without a Labrador in it. My wife and I are both on our second marriage as we had previous lives with kids and all that. This Dog is our kid. She gets groomed once a month and knows when you tell her she’s going. The excitement she gets destroys the house. My wife and I actually grew up together as our parents were best friends and they lived about 3 houses away. Life takes crazy turns but the happiness we have now is more than anything I could’ve imagined.
Oh, how that chimes with me: replace 'labs' with 'collies' and it's exactly the same. Mine were/are all rescues, from dog shelters, so one of the more 'interesting' parts always was to learn about the fears and foibles they'd learned before they came to us. Oh, and no matter what: 'bath time' always was a call for them to vanish and hide. Doing the actual deed needed lots of bribes and the we had to watch four-legged tornados rush through the house, as if to get rid of the horror of a war shape! And that when water in any other form - shallow muddy puddle to cold lake to rushing stream, ditch or river, exerted a magnetic force - and they were in it, one way or the other. Some to swim, some to mess about and one - my beloved Princess - to just daintily wet her paws ... Happy time, never to be forgotten ...
We have a dog that hates going to the vet. When we go there, which is quite infrequent and usually no more than once a year, well BEFORE we turn into the parking area where the building is she somehow knows where we are headed and she starts howling in protest. I really don't know how she could tell where we are!
xoxo. I know what you mean
Good thoughts James Schwartz~! While it is true that animals may not be able to "tell time" by reading a clock or watch, they, like us, are all natural creatures of habit and as such "we" (animals) all understand the general concept of "time" in very similar ways~! So, it is really not that much of a stretch to understand that "telling time" is actually a very natural universally shared tendency for all God's critters in one way or another~! Many similarities in behavior and even "thinking" do actually exist between human-like creatures and those others in the animal Kingdom, however "we" (humans) are obliged to learn the mindset of other animals, and the other animals have no such obligation in learning what goes on in the often-crazy minds of humans~! Pavlov's dogs proved a great many things that are absolutely critical to comprehend to this very day ;-) The human concept of "time" is actually ONLY a bizarre construct of humans, and NOT one of the natural world in which we all exist. So, the real question is what really is "time" and what is our human construct of "time" (watching our clocks and time pieces just "mindlessly" constantly ticking away)~? As humans are very intentionally lured further and further away from our natural world, by very evil forces with bad intentions, in what is laughingly referred to as "civilization", "we" are the ones who are allowing ourselves to be disconnected from our natural world and the absolutely true wonders and miracles of life itself~! How seriously strange and unusual these creatures called "humans" really are~! Ha! Have a great weekend~! Sincerely, Mike
I can relate to this because our dogs are like our babies too! One of the is part border collie and really keeps us on schedule with being fed and getting her biscuit treat in the morning. She grumbles at us if we miss a beat!
My current dog, who has been with us just shy of 1 year, is really schooling me on the real capacity of his mind. Rotties don’t do great in heat so I’ve learned to be vigilant so they won’t suffer heatstroke over the years. This guy is waking me up early in the morning, expressing (nonverbally), “Hurry up! We have an hour before it gets too hot!” Trust me, I am NOT a morning person so my dogs learn fast not to disturb me in the morning. This behavior isn’t regular. And he’s right! I can’t be mad about it!
My cats are the same. And interestingly the time change DST doesn't seem to affect them, at least they don't seem to notice they're being fed an hour later. I suspect it's partly based on our own activity, our time getting up in the morning, going to bed, and so forth automatically changes their internal clocks. 🤷🏼♀️
My dog on the other hand knows no set time to eat. It may be mid morning, after a walk or late night before bed. She decides, then she talks. I respond. Sometimes its just once a day, sometimes two, but I know she's asking for food. I haven't grown to think she has learned from me, but the other way around. She's a Schnauzer.
An hour after eating, my dog seems to have forgotten she ate. Always eager to eat a meal.
Cats are the same way. Over time, I think they "know" some words (treat, hungry, come, out, it's okay, safe. etc.) and they respond. They develop certain behavior patterns as well when there is a reward involved and they know how to communicate with body language (cats have no muscles in their face so you can't 'read' them via facial expressions) because they know you will respond. Sometimes it's just a stare. They don't "plan", but rather live in the present moment. As an aside, they can "see" things I can't see. Sometimes, for no reason, he stares off into space, suddenly startles, and takes off running like a bat out of hell and hides under a bed. Cats have memory too, as all animals do. I recently found a black rat snake in my house. It was there for 3 days before my son came and safely removed it. Oreo was curious, but terrified of it at the same time. After the snake was gone, Oreo continued to be cautious, looked around, and moved slowly and carefully until I could assure him; "It's safe now. The snake is gone. It's okay". That was over a week ago and he remembers).
The biggest thing separating humans from animals is the spiritual component. While we’re physically alike, spiritually we’re different — which allows us to make an impact on our world.
Unfortunately we can do both good and bad — and there’s been a lot of bad spiritual energy in our world, but with awareness of this aspect of reality, we can reverse course.
In this essay, I chose not to focus on the spiritual, but on physiological/behavioral differences in the brain. But I agree entirely with your point of view.
Our spirituality is what makes our soul unique.
It cannot be denied that God created the animals to help humans. To deny that is folly, and makes us less like Creator God.
Honestly, I think the spirituality of dogs is superior to our own. I would not pull rank on this one.
:) I love dogs too.. who knows maybe they go to heaven too.. I don't know.. no one does. :)
Less complicated, I’d say. Animals don’t need complicated metaphysical models to make meaning of life. They are mire like Zen minded, or Taoist: they rest in it via direct experience. They taste the Ultimate, participate directly in it, not s part from it trying to get back like humans.
I’d say our capacity for spirituality emerges from the integration of our animal (relational) vs analytical mind. However, this doesn’t mean animals don’t have their own contribution. As a Buddhist, it is entirely reasonable for me to regard my animal friends, domestic and otherwise, as Buddhas embodying that way to guide me. My spiritual development would’ve been distorted without the influence of the non-human world.
I cannot totally agree with this, though there is some truth to it.
A human body is MUCH different from most animals bodies, in that it can use language and make and use tools in ways that animals just can't because of their physical limitations. Most spiritual beings are attracted to human bodies because of their capabilities. Some choose "lower" animals for various reasons, and animals like elephants, the whale family, the ape family, horses, dogs, cats are often quite intelligent and spiritual when they are properly communicated with.
This is a whole area of knowledge that humans have been purposely kept away from and are just now beginning to really confront and deal with. It is more important to us than most realize.
That is what I said: Anyone who has experienced GOD.. and I have know that God made our brain to communicate with OUR CREATOR.
Many years ago, I was blessed with a beautiful tall young black thoroughbred horse and about that time I also acquired a very special young African Grey parrot, both of these additions to my life resulted in me slowly learning to change my thinking process from that of a "lowly" human to one where I started to learn how to think from the perspective of animals~! I always loved animals, however until I started to learn compassionately about the ways that animals really think and react in different situations, that are SO often times contrary to the way that humans think, my own behavior and reactions were often times creating issues with my critters that were not intended or desirable. Well, my life underwent some difficult changes for some years back then and it Ironically gave me time to learn a tremendous amount from my horse and parrot over quite a few years. To my great surprise I actually started to better understand and even communicate with all animals, except of course for the human animals that are FAR more difficult and challenging to deal with ;-) Only those who have had lengthy experiences with parrots would really understand just how intelligent they can be, and African Grey parrots do have a well-earned reputation of being some of the most Intelligent. My horse also became a great friend because we both eventually learned to communicate on a very different level because of all of the things that I was taught by my non-human family over our early years together. In fact, I could relate many wonderful experiences that we had as we navigated this crazy life in such a troubled country, but when we eventually found ourselves in a new home on the beautiful coast of the Pacific Northwest, I had the great gift of being able to spend many years on beaches with my horse. I have been a natural born horseman all of my life, but until I was able to spend countless hours on the beach with my horse I had never learned much. It was not long before my horse started to love the beach life, and she soon started to enjoy lying down in the warm sand much like we human like creatures often do. Before long, and without any real intended plan or goal, I found myself laying on the beach against my saddle listening to my "Walkman" radio playing music, as my horse was lying next to me with her head in my lap often for hours at a time~! Even though I usually made efforts to be away from the crowds that frequented the beaches, we always attracted a lot of attention because the sight of "us" just enjoying the beach was nothing that the majority of people could easily process in their human minds. Cell phones were becoming common about that time and soon I learned that when we were on the beach the local police department was getting inundated with "emergency calls" about "a man trapped under a horse on the beach", which soon resulted in numerous police dispatchers having to be trained to calm the tourists who had become hysterical at the sight of what had become to us our very normal and usual routine~! Yes, Dr. Malone is making a VERY important point here in this article for all of us to take seriously, because I have found that even for people who do not like or appreciate animals, learning to appreciate our fellow "beings" (human or otherwise) by doing our best to consider their Individual point of view and what they may be thinking, is of the greatest value for those who are interested in a better world~! This great article has a FAR greater and important meaning in our world to consider~! Enjoy and embrace the complexities of our existence, for we are all truly engaged in a grand learning experience~! Sincerely, Mike
That is a fascinating story: I know I have to go.. darn it.. but also. I know about the African Parrots. and for sure.. CROWS TALK.. BLACK CROWS.. LOL.. I heard them "talking" (not English) whatever.. at the SAFEWAY near the FOOD DUMPSTER.. YUP it is said they have the intellect of a 3 year old. OH WOW. I LOOKED IT UP.. now it is said 7 year old. well not sure about that.. but https://youtu.be/7aWL2iEb6y4?si=Q9vY39HxmqlysC0F. I am sure that African Gray Parrot was really fun and amazing. Horses don't seem to be very smart to me but I have never owned one. I have ridden and didn't like it.. not sure why. but anyway thanks for sharing. :)
Thank you for your appreciation & comments "Science"~!
Oh yes, African Grey parrots are known for their extremely high Intelligence and my beloved bird would kiss folks on the lips, Boggie boarded behind boats, rode my horse, travelled more land, water, and air miles than many humans ever will, and also had a respectable vocabulary. They don't just say words, African Grey parrots more often than not speak Intelligently within a conversation, much like an 8 or 9 year old child would (if the child was raised well that is). I have no idea why she didn't say any swear words, but she was definitely a good bird :) The entire Black Bird family have high Intelligence levels and yes, they actually are capable of limited talking (even in English). We own a small farm/ranch here in the Pacific NW and we free range many chickens, ducks, and geese, so it is common for us to have predator issues. Years ago, we learned that even the smallest single Blackbird was easily capable of dominating and harassing several massive Bald Eagles at one time and of course dealing successfully with other birds in the Vulture family, to drive them away from their territory. So, we have a deal with our Raven friends here that they can have some of our chicken and duck eggs, as long as they run off the Vultures that would prey on our flock, which they definitely do because the Black Bird family are extremely territorial ;-) Naturalists always know science best~! Ha! The truth is that horses are extremely Intelligent as well, but mostly within their "natural need" ability as "fight or flight" critters, so that is why humans have difficulties understanding their true Intellectual level. My horse had top world class thoroughbred bloodlines, and she was a seriously advanced riders' horse to be sure, but when she was not under saddle and I was riding her bareback she knew to be more mellow because she obviously loved me and her life... That always astounded me as it was absolute proof of a higher Intelligence level in a horse ;-) I am not an "adrenaline junkie", but blowing down an appropriate beach on a world class thoroughbred race horse, especially riding bareback, is an experience that the majority of humans should NEVER attempt, but the few of us who are capable and have done it will always count it as one of our greatest times in life~! Ha! An understatement to be sure ;-) I never let my horse see the racetrack and I saved her from that potentially ugly experience, but I am no stranger to horse racing, and I always knew that she was definitely capable of blowing many other racehorses right off of the track when she was in her prime~! Over the years I ran across a number of folks who took great pride in their horses' ability to run/race, but no one EVER dared to challenge my horse, especially after they saw her move~! She was born to run, and she loved just chillin' on the beach as well. A perfect horse for an old lifeguard beach bum and I sure do miss her, but I almost got her to make 30 years old, which is a long-time fir that breed of horse ;-) Ha! She also had many more land, water, and air miles logged in than many humans ever will~! Flying horses is a challenge BTW~! So, I am sorry that your horseback riding experience was not so great, but obviously many activities like that need to be undertaken with the proper due care and proper supervision of good knowledgeable folks or the outcome can rob the Individual of one of life's best experiences~! Keep an open mind and the world will enlighten you with new and wonderful experiences~! Have a great weekend~! Sincerely, Mike
I love your mind Doctor Malone. Thank you for that fascinating reminder. I often wonder also how other species perceive our world differently than do we. How even a dog's eyesight, senses of smell and hearing make for a different world than what we perceive. And then when we consider non-mammalian species.....
But I would not limit our consideration of of other species' reactions or perceptions. How about humans who don't think or react normally to things? Such as liberals and other creatures of the Left?
Midbrainers?
Lame-brainers!
Thank you for a fascinating look into this. I look forward to your ideas about Spirituality and our differences.
I hope Dr. Jill is alright, & feeling better. I understand taking care to make sure the Mother had water & food, but like you mention, Momma bird reacted immediately & quickly, to protect her baby. I actually think in images, & remember when my Daughter’s dog, Ammo, part Belgium Malanois (sp), & a few mutt-mixes, would come up to me when I sat down, she would lay her head on the chair arm, & look at me with her beautiful, brown eyes, & ask for some attention. I saw love in her eyes, & she was so comforting to be around. I have that image in my brain & always see Ammo- every day. Unfortunately, she got cancer; she had treatments & lived for about a year, but passed one night & we lost her. It makes me cry just trying to type. She seemed human to me, & her owners, were always there for her. She is missed so much!
My local farmer raises sheep and during one of her tours we met the sheep and lambs and she told of the ewe that her daughter raised years ago, who still brings her lambs to her personally to introduce them, when they are born. I believe that animals come to teach us lessons and help us through sad times. Sometimes they are the cause of sad times, or unpleasant reminders that will save us from ourselves. Without a very special stray, my eyes would not have been opened to the veterinary industrial complex, (not that I called it that at the time). The suffering that the vets were prepared to cause that cat was huge. The advantage that they tried to take of their perception of what our compassion should look like, (untold numbers of tests and treatments, denigrating any other more natural suggestions, and their blind adherence to "the science"). was appalling to watch. In the end we stepped in and took th poor cat to someone who could end his suffering. That taught us a lot about animal suffering and the people who will exploit it to delay a kind despatch, all to save the pain of the human in that moment.
In many ways, so many of us have a slightly misplaced attachment, but we are always the apex species whose pleasure and privilege it is to steward the animal world. It gets us in trouble sometime. Poor Dr Jill. I bet that hurt like the dickens. I would have found it incredibly upsetting, and maybe the title to this essay could also be, "My incredible, compassionate, tender-hearted wife suffering the results of her loving impulse to care, never fails to touch my heart deeply".
Oh, it is difficult sometimes seeing an animal suffering, & when “our Ammo” was initially diagnosed with cancer, one thing I remember a vet telling my Daughter & Son-in-Law, getting Ammo spade caused one of her nipples to be infected? I was not sure if that had truth or not; Ammo was never pregnant of course, & I never understood the vets’ explanation. But, I feel Dr. Jill was of course just doing what came naturally for her, to take care of this new Momma bird. It is very heartwarming indeed, but also, a “lesson learned” I believe.
I wonder how? If there is one thing I am kicking myself for more and more in my life, it is not asking why/how/could you share your data source with me/what makes you say that?
I am ambidextrous and use mental images to help me remember numbers, addresses etc. I think in words when I am learning something and then I create the image in my mind of what I’ve learned, to reinforce the concept on my memory. I tend to take notes of important items as well - is that a visual version of thinking in words? LOL.
I always picture people before recall or bring up their name. Particularly people I don't interact with often. At 74 I rely on this visualizing more as many people in knew I might not have seen for decades. Problem is they are old now too and may not look much like they used to. (unlike me who hasn't aged a bit - until I look in a mirror).
Wondering how many different ways we learn.
Visual, hearing, tactile, smell, but nothing teaches like the mistakes we make that we live through and can add association for future reference.
THAT IS WHOLE TOPIC UNTO ITSELF
I had an Akita. We went to a store and I took him out of the car (on leash) to walk him so he could pee. A man appeared out of nowhere and bent over him and grabbed his head to pet him. He got bit on the hand. I put the dog back in the car and asked why he did that. He said "I thought he was friendly." I said "you should know never to come up to a dog you don't know and who doesn't know you". I always carried a 1st aid kit in the car, so I cleaned and bandaged his bit. He demanded proof the dog had his rabies shots. As it turned out, he uses the same Vet I do so he could check it out. The vet read him out saying the same thing I told him about approaching animals. Akitas are as close to having a wolf as I would ever want. I leash walked him 3 to 5 miles a day in aggregate because off leash he would take off on adventures and get in trouble. Even though we had 80 acres he would not stay on the property if "free" to run. We also had cats some outdoor cats and some that could come in the house. The Akita recognized them as part of the pack, but stray cats he would kill if they came after his cats. As much as I loved that dog, I would never have another one.
Another thought provoking essay.
On the human side of things, a person that can visualize something, be it new cutting edge or an old standard properly scaled, and then put what they visualized into a physical reality can be extremely successful.
We all should lift our eyes to see the world around us. There was a story of a man that one day found a gold coin on the ground. He couldn’t believe what he had found. He spent his whole life looking down trying to find other coins, which at times he did. The story though is about all of the beauty this world has to offer that he missed out on. I think this goes to your essay Dr. Malone. We need to use our eyes and our brain to create an image.
Your experience with dealing with different types of animals creates thoughts and images of how things at your farm should be handled, it’s an invaluable tool.
In my trade of building things, I’ve found being able to see something that is scaled properly, is a standard of what you would see, and then physically building it is invaluable.
Both are similar in that using our eyes and our brain to create an image, a plan, how to move forward is in my opinion knowledge. We also all learn from our mistakes.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DE-tqzzyQKJ/
So interesting! I've read (cannot remember the book or author because I've read so many on the topic) that the difference between animals and humans is God, and how He made us with a sense of right and wrong that animals don't possess. Side note: we had a pair of guineas who squawked loudly and constantly. And as annoying as they could be, I was deeply hurt when they took it upon themselves to move across the street and live at our neighbors with his emus. I felt like "what did I do to make you leave me?" 😂
I am a dogs 🐶 sitter in this country for 25 years. That was very interesting essay to read
That is such an interesting essay. Personally, I have recently discovered that I have aphantasia..large inability to visualize anything,! I am an equine body worker and have my own horses. I have always had issues with instructors telling me to visualize, say a dressage test or what I was asking the horse to do. I have had success with ground work and I do seem to ,"hear" the horses when I am working with them or doing bodywork. Excellent description and food for thought especially for those who have limited interactions with animals. It is all fascinating! Thank you!
First, we wish Jill a quick recovery. We often leaned carefully over domestic bunnies to trim their nails, so we know how quickly an unprepared human can receive a bite or a kick when forgetting how to think like our animal friends.
Because we write most of the day, we think in words. But we also think in pictures, visualizing ideas (especially in the shower). So, a bit of both!
While living in San Diego County, we were honored and humbled to own and train a llama, who lived with other llamas at two different boarding locations, one where he was born, and another where visiting him was more convenient.
We learned training techniques from first ranch owner John Mallon (http://johnmallonclinics.net/, very old website) and his then-wife, who used horse training theory to think like a llama, for that's what we had to do to communicate effectively with our prey animal friend. Thanks to John's teaching us how to put ourselves in the llama's pajamas (so to speak), we and our llama ultimately became well-trained. We often did llama PR on San Diego trails and even in a pet store once.
We taught Bandit (aka Bandito) to pick up his feet on command (even in an open field), have his nails trimmed, stand still, allow us to brush his teeth (who does that!), back up, turn, jump over small obstacles without overtaking the handler, pop into and out of our minivan when asked, and more. He stoically allowed us to treat him for a chronic hay-induced jaw abscess. We couldn't have asked for a smarter and more wonderful hiking companion. But, it all boiled down to thinking like a llama, not like a human, and not being greedy about what we asked him to do.
We used similar approaches when working with our rescue bunny friends.
For great insights into thinking in pictures, check out Temple Grandin's 1995 book, Thinking in Pictures (https://a.co/d/5BjgntK). Grandin is an autistic woman, who feels she can "see through a cow's eyes." She became an influential designer of slaughterhouses and livestock restraint systems that reduced stress on the animals just before their lives ended. She has great insight into human-animal relations. All because she thinks in pictures but fortunately can translate her visual thoughts into words.
I loved learning more from Temple Grandin.
Beautiful essay, Dr Malone, thank you! It's especially important to teach little children to "think dog" and not 'think person' when approaching a dog - although many humans could also profit from such training! After all, dogs do have teeth which can do untold damage to a human, adult or toddler.
This is across all species, really. Horses a very good example - they are prey animals, we are predators (and they never forget that). When you see someone that can ask a horse to do all kinds of advanced behaviors that seems like pure magic, it means that human never acts like a predator or asks like a predator, and the horse believes they are always safe when with their human as a companion. Don't limit thinking like another species just to dogs, you humans out there!
I couldn't agree more: this sin't limited to dogs, as anyone with connections to other animals, as you describe for Horses, knows. Cats also come to mind, and for me, bids - garden birds.
Big bird watchers here - eat us out of house and home, they are awesome. The newest hatchlings make you smile, and yes, I have daily conversations with my older black cat about his proclivities.
My experiences with horses are much more rewarding than with dogs, because it is so much more difficult to communicate with horses. We are nothing like them. Dogs have been with us for so long that they teach us and thoroughly understand us. Also, we are both predators.
AMEN. really I better go the PHONE IS RINGING AND I HAVE A TON TO DO.
THANK YOU ALL.. and especially Robert and Jill.. fascinating..
Definitely images and emotions that connect to all OF my relations. WITH a few TIAs that I've had since Covid, you need to add in a little bit MORE of laybilitity On my reactions to the situations these days OF all myOUR relations😢
Thank goodness for people like you and Dr. MerleMERYL Nass attempting to keep us informed with both sides of the stories.
We can never forget all of our front line doctor scientist and humanitarians alive and dead throughout the centuries THAT riskED everything to do the same for HUMANITY.
❤️🙏❤️
Thank you for this interesting discussion. Have to admit I'm not one for monkeys. Watched some through a window at the zoo. Encountered some running loose, prompting me to put up my car windows.
I would add expectations to your list. Have experienced feeding ferals and deer. They have internal watches. I have do feed at the same hour each day. They appear at that hour. Yesterday, feeding the clients deer friends, I found myself surrounded by antlered deer. I just do what I usually do. No words or ackbowledgements. Rarely we eye to eye. Just curiousity. No problems.
Cats and domestic birds are another story. My experiences with dogs have generally been influenced by their relations with their owners.
Your description re our brain functions give me pause. Several strikes to the head, including within the last year (with warfarin). Makes me wonder how I'm managing.
Anyway off to my AM client visit with the super cat, fish and deer. Almost over.
Have a good day and wishing Dr Jill speedy healing!
Deer do become rather calm. We have fed them here for some 15-16 yrs now and are well known by them. One doe has developed a taste for bird seed so if she is here when I go bird feeding she walks right up and pushes her nose into the seed bucket. And now that has encouraged a shyer one to ask very politely for some seed too