I read the book "The Germ in the Dairy Pail" which explains this whole scenario. It's unreal how afraid people are. I tried to give away some of our raw milk (7 gallons a day from one Jersey cow!) and people freaked out, telling me I was trying to send people to the ER and that it was illegal. In the meantime, I'm making cheese and yogurt as fast as I can. It's the best thing we've ever eaten!
I am fascinated by many of Dr. Malone's articles. This particular one is my strong suit, as I've given testimony in a few different state houses in favor of raw milk as a dairy veterinarian and dairy farmer. Louisiana was almost stuck other deliberations for raw milk and I mentioned if they'd thought about "pet milk", one of the ways states allow raw milk sales. Lo and behold, Governor Landry soon after (committee hearings, etc) signed pet milk into law 🙂
In TN we have the ability to buy a cow share for raw milk. Unfortunately, I believe a state senator (Briggs) sees this as a loophole in need of closing. I’m not sure if it’s recent or if he has failed for good (hopefully) Once you’ve tasted raw milk from a Jersey cow, you can’t go back. To me, raw goat’s milk is even better.
Really One Jersey cow ? what are you feeding that Jersey, I'm not in the know really, but my grand father milked 13 and I don't think they got any where near that daily? oH I forgot twice a day morning and evening !
Cows now are bred to produce ridiculous amounts of milk. We share with six people who help milk and we are still all drowning in milk. Some days it's only five gallons and frankly, we are thankful!
My mother grew up in a dairy family and had to milk 6-8 cows every morning before breakfast. The only difference between a person in prison and a dairy farmer is that the prisoner does not have to milk cows. We have cows but......our calves do all of the milking.
I live among a large Amish community from whom I have learned a lot. I’ve known them for 40 years. They all drink raw milk straight from their cows. They are farmers. Their barns are typical which is to say not spick and span. There is plenty of hay and cow manure and lots of flies. I have never heard of a single case of cow born disease among them. So, I get my raw milk from my neighbors who need me to buy an annual cow share so we don’t run foul of the FDA. I think there are lots of reasons for the robust health of their babies and children. But I suspect that one of them is raw milk with its mighty micro flora that pampers the gut with its many beneficial microbes.
I lived around the Amish for 20+!years. Got to know them really really well. Actually some Amish families I knew in Lancaster would vaccinate their families. Probably not to the ridiculous amount that most kids unfortunately are exposed to, but some families would, just like with their cows. Many Amish would vaccinate their cows, but certainly not all. Usually they not the certified Organic ones.
when I grew up i only remember One vaccine = small pox then the polio syrup about 1960 and Autism = maybe two kids in 12 years of school - I remember a speech problem and an anger problem ! But we didn't have all the poison they push on us today!
I am 68. I don't remember ANY autism as a student or teacher of 7-8 grades until the last three or four years of my classroom years which ended in 2019.
Interesting. In a microbiology class was told about a place that made sausages. For some reason had a microbiologist do a run through, declared they were a hazard and had then clean the place. The flavor of the "clean" sausage was awful so they fired the expert and hoped the smoking sheds could return to their natural state. Understand the same holds true for true stilton cheese in England. There was hilarious show from there about a chef trying to get some real stilton for a dish to enter in an international competition.
A decade ago, my husband decided to thoroughly clean out my bread machine (which I use exclusively for making dough, since my fibro makes kneading bread difficult for me). He got every bit of it spic and span...and it took weeks for my bread to recover its flavor. The dusting of "accidental" flour that I leave intentionally in the outer well of the machine is a source of airborne natural yeasts that flavors every batch of bread dough.
My husband used to enjoy Liederkranz cheese. I couldn’t abide the smell, and nicknamed it Liederkrank, after it stunk up the fridge when it ripened. I had thrown everything out, cleaned the fridge with baking soda twice in two weeks, when I finally identified the source on garbage collection day. He was so irritated I got rid of it, saying it (which had been still sealed) was “finally ripe.” Years later, I heard that when the owners bought a new factory to handle the increased demand, they discovered that the active agent had been left behind in the HVAC system of the old building. Since it was no longer available, the company went belly up. Although I laugh at myself as a newlywed, the story of the company is so sad.
Nobody here tests but they know their cows intimately and if one had a cough the vet would immediately be called. That’s the first sign of TB. All the cows free range all day. They get spring water to drink. They get nongmo grain treat once a day. Mineral blocks are always available and they get milked twice a day and overnight (a few live totally in pasture) in the barn. The milk man or maid goes twice a day with warm water and clean towel to clean the teats. There are a few ornery cows but most make me wish someone would pay that much attention to me twice a day.
Most states are TB and Brucella free now for many years. Some are modified accredited, like areas of the upper peninsula of MI (for TB) and Wyoming for Brucella.
I went with grandpa to milk the cows. Grandma would pour the milk into gallon canning jars. I grew up consuming raw milk. I helped churn the butter, one of my favorite jobs on the farm.
I remember grandpa would wash the cows udders, wash his hands and the milk bucket was always cleaned with boiling water after each use. We were very healthy, raised our own beef, chickens, pork as well as all vegetables. I even remember taking wheat and corn to the mill to be ground into flour and meal. I wonder if kids today even know where food comes from.
You will never go back once you have experienced that so good flavor. It is way more digestible as well; has all the essentials to help one's gut use all that goodness. God doesn't make mistakes!
For someone new to goat's milk, it needs to be very fresh; it will develop that characteristic "goaty" flavor as the caprylic and caproic acids develop over time which is what gives the cheese that distinctive taste.
I think the goat’s milk I drank was same day as milking so I wouldn’t know. But I was TOLD that the goaty flavor comes when the bucks are not kept separated from the does. The reason is too nonsensical to repeat…something about buck pee…
At any rate, both my husband and I gravitated to the goat’s milk. The high fat content didn’t separate so he preferred it for coffee as well.
Growing up, I milked the cow, poured it through cheesecloth, and put in the refrigerator. Drank it, cooked with it (makes better biscuits) until gone. Still alive.
Daughter was researching best immune benefiting foods for my grand-daughter who went type-1 at 12 and is now 17 ! "RAW MILK" one of the BEST That's why we go to the farm co-op every other week for raw milk, fresh open rage eggs, and cream and 1/4 beef when able ! My daughter even helped milk the cows, to learn about the dairy cows ! OK now tell us all the benefits of raw Milk !
Shocker that NY is the state where corruption caused a situation where most of us here in the NE cannot get raw milk as it’s deemed illegal. I cannot wait to get the hell outta here!
There is a store called Soulberry Market, which is in PA and two stores in NJ. They get around it by selling raw “pet milk” as of 6 months ago. Hopefully they haven’t been busted by the milk police.
Yes, pet milk is legal if even a state like NJ has officially adopted the AAFCO standards. Milk is simply listed as milk in the standards, not pasteurized milk. So pet stores could actually carry pet milk and most of that is of normal quality.
Depending where you are in NJ, PA and DE are nearby. DE (a very blue state) just legalized it a couple years ago, the same time that LA did (a very red state). It used to be the hippies through the back-to-the-land movement and now it's a MAHA item. Funny how food cuts across party lines.
PA is well over an hour away. I do get gently pasteurized milk delivered. I have to shake it as the crème rises. Best milk I’ve had in decades since I made the switch a little over a year ago. They deliver it weekly. A small dairy farm in state
Low temperature pasteurization at 145 Fahrenheit for 30 minutes is the bare minimum and actually the original pasteurization standard. A micro processor in our area, actually the guy who we ship our milk to, likes to say that his milk is "barely legal" because that is the way he pasteurize it. He also has a cream top on homogenized product.
Fascinating and revolting history. Thanks for educating us
I had brucellosis in 1982 and not from drinking raw milk but from exposure working in a USDA NVSL lab because of idiot coworkers. It took a long time to diagnose and even longer to treat.
With apparent thyroid issues, my attending MD offered 'NO MILK, reducing calcium', as an alternative. I did see a clip damning current practices for pasturization of milk. So had I the option of including milk in my diet, neither option seems to receive popular support.
I really appreciate the information you've provided here! When will we ever learn. We have the public health stats of improvements from effective sanitation practices. We have puppy illnesses from puppy mill practices. We have regular CDC recalls of contaminated products. A veritable multitude of examples of sloth and bad practices impacting our health.
Do we need incentives for sanitary production, processing and distribution? Recognition for responsible healthy practices? Dissemination of details on best practices?
In the meantime, thank you for your coverage and support for valuable products, responsible producers.
This article reminded me of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle," which I've written about here before; a fictional story in which early 20th century Chicago meat packing plants figure prominently. As I think about it, I wonder how many people became vegetarians after reading the book. Horrible conditions.
Yep, a great book James. I read that back in the 60's and was just amazed. I will never forget the parts about all the filth(including humans) solvated into
"Durham's Pure Leaf Lard"!! What a great ironic trademark name for it.
Here's a Grok dialog on this article and your companion "Well Being: The Truth About Raw Milk" article. After some coaxing, Grok finally says:
"Bottom line: The "hidden" burden of mild/repeated/low-level atopic disease is enormous in aggregate—driving most costs, absences, and QoL hits. Observational data suggest unprocessed milk could meaningfully shrink this via prevention, especially in kids. This supports Malone’s call for better risk-benefit quantification tailored to sourcing quality and demographics, beyond just severe infection counts. Individual families (especially allergy-prone) weigh this against practical sourcing realities."
What the heck is the matter with people who will sell their soul for a few shillings? I listened to Jan Jekielek with Jacob Siegel today, and the stakes keep getting higher. This question of whether to take a higher road versus fraud in so many forms is ancient and never-ending it seems. It is just cycling in circles.The saying "Buyer Beware" isn't going away anytime soon. (and I'm not talking raw milk)
Another example of a Band-Aid approach to fixing a problem. It is my understanding that outdated milk is returned to the milk processor and they re-pasteurize the outdated milk and recycle it. They also use the out dated milk to produce cheese and etc. Nothing is wasted. Nutritional value is not the main goal.
Not true, milk cannot be reprocessed legally. Nor can it be made into cheese. Nor would it make any economic sense to do so.
I spent 25 years in the dairy business and in cheese manufacture. Milked our own cows and bottled our own milk, retailed it by home delivery as well as store. Was supervisor at a mid-sized cheese plant using a million pounds of milk a day. i know what i speak of.
It's not to say that someone couldn't try reprocessing or other adulteration, but it couldn't go on for long. The regulations surrounding dairy are very strict and inspections are frequent. Even the very largest processors are forced to respect the regs.
And honestly, the cost of labor involved in reprocessing would exceed any savings from re-using the expired milk. Plus, check out the pull-by dates of today's products; there's very little milk expiring before it's sold.
That's interesting. I never heard that in all my years in dairying. But I always wondered about expired milk until we started getting expired food from a large chain for many years, from which we fed raw meat (secured but refrigerated) to our 14 Great Pyrenees field figs and multiple house figs and cats. They always had expired milk around, too. I don't think the PMO would allow pasteurized milk (which will putrefy) to be recycled into edible human food.
Interestingly, there is a county in Nevada that actually still has Certified Milk completely legal. But there's no dairies and only 2000 people in that county.
I read the book "The Germ in the Dairy Pail" which explains this whole scenario. It's unreal how afraid people are. I tried to give away some of our raw milk (7 gallons a day from one Jersey cow!) and people freaked out, telling me I was trying to send people to the ER and that it was illegal. In the meantime, I'm making cheese and yogurt as fast as I can. It's the best thing we've ever eaten!
You have to overcome decades of indoctrination of the public.
It is not illegal to literally give away raw milk in any state. Once money is exchanged for it, the rules change.
Dr. Karreman, I hope you stick around here for awhile, we can use your experience and knowledge. Thanks!
I am fascinated by many of Dr. Malone's articles. This particular one is my strong suit, as I've given testimony in a few different state houses in favor of raw milk as a dairy veterinarian and dairy farmer. Louisiana was almost stuck other deliberations for raw milk and I mentioned if they'd thought about "pet milk", one of the ways states allow raw milk sales. Lo and behold, Governor Landry soon after (committee hearings, etc) signed pet milk into law 🙂
In TN we have the ability to buy a cow share for raw milk. Unfortunately, I believe a state senator (Briggs) sees this as a loophole in need of closing. I’m not sure if it’s recent or if he has failed for good (hopefully) Once you’ve tasted raw milk from a Jersey cow, you can’t go back. To me, raw goat’s milk is even better.
Really One Jersey cow ? what are you feeding that Jersey, I'm not in the know really, but my grand father milked 13 and I don't think they got any where near that daily? oH I forgot twice a day morning and evening !
Cows now are bred to produce ridiculous amounts of milk. We share with six people who help milk and we are still all drowning in milk. Some days it's only five gallons and frankly, we are thankful!
Skim the milk, make butter with the cream and feed the skim to your chickens or your pigs.
This was the standard practice back when most farmers sold the cream rather than the milk.
I live in Minnesota . . . can I have some, will help milk?!
Ha, Ha!
My mother grew up in a dairy family and had to milk 6-8 cows every morning before breakfast. The only difference between a person in prison and a dairy farmer is that the prisoner does not have to milk cows. We have cows but......our calves do all of the milking.
I buy all Jersey from a dairy in Lynden Washington. Glass bottles and real butterfat. Yummy. It isn’t raw, but it is better than whitewash any day!
Wish I could have had that milk!!
Wow what a shame some people are so unwilling to do any research.
I hope you find some appreciative, informed people to share with.
I live among a large Amish community from whom I have learned a lot. I’ve known them for 40 years. They all drink raw milk straight from their cows. They are farmers. Their barns are typical which is to say not spick and span. There is plenty of hay and cow manure and lots of flies. I have never heard of a single case of cow born disease among them. So, I get my raw milk from my neighbors who need me to buy an annual cow share so we don’t run foul of the FDA. I think there are lots of reasons for the robust health of their babies and children. But I suspect that one of them is raw milk with its mighty micro flora that pampers the gut with its many beneficial microbes.
and "NO" vaccines
I lived around the Amish for 20+!years. Got to know them really really well. Actually some Amish families I knew in Lancaster would vaccinate their families. Probably not to the ridiculous amount that most kids unfortunately are exposed to, but some families would, just like with their cows. Many Amish would vaccinate their cows, but certainly not all. Usually they not the certified Organic ones.
when I grew up i only remember One vaccine = small pox then the polio syrup about 1960 and Autism = maybe two kids in 12 years of school - I remember a speech problem and an anger problem ! But we didn't have all the poison they push on us today!
I am 68. I don't remember ANY autism as a student or teacher of 7-8 grades until the last three or four years of my classroom years which ended in 2019.
Interesting. In a microbiology class was told about a place that made sausages. For some reason had a microbiologist do a run through, declared they were a hazard and had then clean the place. The flavor of the "clean" sausage was awful so they fired the expert and hoped the smoking sheds could return to their natural state. Understand the same holds true for true stilton cheese in England. There was hilarious show from there about a chef trying to get some real stilton for a dish to enter in an international competition.
A decade ago, my husband decided to thoroughly clean out my bread machine (which I use exclusively for making dough, since my fibro makes kneading bread difficult for me). He got every bit of it spic and span...and it took weeks for my bread to recover its flavor. The dusting of "accidental" flour that I leave intentionally in the outer well of the machine is a source of airborne natural yeasts that flavors every batch of bread dough.
My husband used to enjoy Liederkranz cheese. I couldn’t abide the smell, and nicknamed it Liederkrank, after it stunk up the fridge when it ripened. I had thrown everything out, cleaned the fridge with baking soda twice in two weeks, when I finally identified the source on garbage collection day. He was so irritated I got rid of it, saying it (which had been still sealed) was “finally ripe.” Years later, I heard that when the owners bought a new factory to handle the increased demand, they discovered that the active agent had been left behind in the HVAC system of the old building. Since it was no longer available, the company went belly up. Although I laugh at myself as a newlywed, the story of the company is so sad.
So, just curious, do they test for TB? etc?
Guessing you don't know. We have started buying raw milk too and have not asked. . .
Nobody here tests but they know their cows intimately and if one had a cough the vet would immediately be called. That’s the first sign of TB. All the cows free range all day. They get spring water to drink. They get nongmo grain treat once a day. Mineral blocks are always available and they get milked twice a day and overnight (a few live totally in pasture) in the barn. The milk man or maid goes twice a day with warm water and clean towel to clean the teats. There are a few ornery cows but most make me wish someone would pay that much attention to me twice a day.
"most make me wish someone would pay that much attention to me twice a day."
I'm dyin' here!
gonna' show that to yer hubbie!
Love your humor!!
Most states are TB and Brucella free now for many years. Some are modified accredited, like areas of the upper peninsula of MI (for TB) and Wyoming for Brucella.
Whoa! thanks.
Everyone I grew up with drank raw milk, without problems. Probably better for it.
I didn’t know they put cows milk in cartons until I went to school in first grade.
Yes; we got ours delivered in glass bottles.
I went with grandpa to milk the cows. Grandma would pour the milk into gallon canning jars. I grew up consuming raw milk. I helped churn the butter, one of my favorite jobs on the farm.
I remember grandpa would wash the cows udders, wash his hands and the milk bucket was always cleaned with boiling water after each use. We were very healthy, raised our own beef, chickens, pork as well as all vegetables. I even remember taking wheat and corn to the mill to be ground into flour and meal. I wonder if kids today even know where food comes from.
I doubt if most of them do . . . not if they live in cities.
I need to try raw milk.
You will never go back once you have experienced that so good flavor. It is way more digestible as well; has all the essentials to help one's gut use all that goodness. God doesn't make mistakes!
Try goat’s milk - it’s not like goat cheese.
For someone new to goat's milk, it needs to be very fresh; it will develop that characteristic "goaty" flavor as the caprylic and caproic acids develop over time which is what gives the cheese that distinctive taste.
But it still can't compare to Jersey milk. :)
I think the goat’s milk I drank was same day as milking so I wouldn’t know. But I was TOLD that the goaty flavor comes when the bucks are not kept separated from the does. The reason is too nonsensical to repeat…something about buck pee…
At any rate, both my husband and I gravitated to the goat’s milk. The high fat content didn’t separate so he preferred it for coffee as well.
Growing up, I milked the cow, poured it through cheesecloth, and put in the refrigerator. Drank it, cooked with it (makes better biscuits) until gone. Still alive.
Daughter was researching best immune benefiting foods for my grand-daughter who went type-1 at 12 and is now 17 ! "RAW MILK" one of the BEST That's why we go to the farm co-op every other week for raw milk, fresh open rage eggs, and cream and 1/4 beef when able ! My daughter even helped milk the cows, to learn about the dairy cows ! OK now tell us all the benefits of raw Milk !
Shocker that NY is the state where corruption caused a situation where most of us here in the NE cannot get raw milk as it’s deemed illegal. I cannot wait to get the hell outta here!
Only NJ has laws still against it. The rest of the northeast states all allow it to one degree or another.
There is a store called Soulberry Market, which is in PA and two stores in NJ. They get around it by selling raw “pet milk” as of 6 months ago. Hopefully they haven’t been busted by the milk police.
Yes, pet milk is legal if even a state like NJ has officially adopted the AAFCO standards. Milk is simply listed as milk in the standards, not pasteurized milk. So pet stores could actually carry pet milk and most of that is of normal quality.
Now you see my problem.
Depending where you are in NJ, PA and DE are nearby. DE (a very blue state) just legalized it a couple years ago, the same time that LA did (a very red state). It used to be the hippies through the back-to-the-land movement and now it's a MAHA item. Funny how food cuts across party lines.
PA is well over an hour away. I do get gently pasteurized milk delivered. I have to shake it as the crème rises. Best milk I’ve had in decades since I made the switch a little over a year ago. They deliver it weekly. A small dairy farm in state
Low temperature pasteurization at 145 Fahrenheit for 30 minutes is the bare minimum and actually the original pasteurization standard. A micro processor in our area, actually the guy who we ship our milk to, likes to say that his milk is "barely legal" because that is the way he pasteurize it. He also has a cream top on homogenized product.
That’s the way it’s done with the milk I get. You surely can taste the difference compared to the Franken-milk on shelves at the grocery store.
Shocking that the experts lied.
I've been buying grass-fed pasteurized cow's milk for a couple years but recently ran across a dairy where I can buy real raw milk!
Fascinating and revolting history. Thanks for educating us
I had brucellosis in 1982 and not from drinking raw milk but from exposure working in a USDA NVSL lab because of idiot coworkers. It took a long time to diagnose and even longer to treat.
With apparent thyroid issues, my attending MD offered 'NO MILK, reducing calcium', as an alternative. I did see a clip damning current practices for pasturization of milk. So had I the option of including milk in my diet, neither option seems to receive popular support.
I really appreciate the information you've provided here! When will we ever learn. We have the public health stats of improvements from effective sanitation practices. We have puppy illnesses from puppy mill practices. We have regular CDC recalls of contaminated products. A veritable multitude of examples of sloth and bad practices impacting our health.
Do we need incentives for sanitary production, processing and distribution? Recognition for responsible healthy practices? Dissemination of details on best practices?
In the meantime, thank you for your coverage and support for valuable products, responsible producers.
This article reminded me of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle," which I've written about here before; a fictional story in which early 20th century Chicago meat packing plants figure prominently. As I think about it, I wonder how many people became vegetarians after reading the book. Horrible conditions.
I don't think it was fictional. And it led to the pure food and drug law of 1906.
Yep, a great book James. I read that back in the 60's and was just amazed. I will never forget the parts about all the filth(including humans) solvated into
"Durham's Pure Leaf Lard"!! What a great ironic trademark name for it.
Here's a Grok dialog on this article and your companion "Well Being: The Truth About Raw Milk" article. After some coaxing, Grok finally says:
"Bottom line: The "hidden" burden of mild/repeated/low-level atopic disease is enormous in aggregate—driving most costs, absences, and QoL hits. Observational data suggest unprocessed milk could meaningfully shrink this via prevention, especially in kids. This supports Malone’s call for better risk-benefit quantification tailored to sourcing quality and demographics, beyond just severe infection counts. Individual families (especially allergy-prone) weigh this against practical sourcing realities."
https://x.com/i/grok/share/dd85643ef4ac4197938ff8bc7e1f2c26
What the heck is the matter with people who will sell their soul for a few shillings? I listened to Jan Jekielek with Jacob Siegel today, and the stakes keep getting higher. This question of whether to take a higher road versus fraud in so many forms is ancient and never-ending it seems. It is just cycling in circles.The saying "Buyer Beware" isn't going away anytime soon. (and I'm not talking raw milk)
Another example of a Band-Aid approach to fixing a problem. It is my understanding that outdated milk is returned to the milk processor and they re-pasteurize the outdated milk and recycle it. They also use the out dated milk to produce cheese and etc. Nothing is wasted. Nutritional value is not the main goal.
Not true, milk cannot be reprocessed legally. Nor can it be made into cheese. Nor would it make any economic sense to do so.
I spent 25 years in the dairy business and in cheese manufacture. Milked our own cows and bottled our own milk, retailed it by home delivery as well as store. Was supervisor at a mid-sized cheese plant using a million pounds of milk a day. i know what i speak of.
Also in the 1960’s a Chicago milk company was the doing just that and exceed the limits.
I guess AI lied to me.
Ya think?
It's not to say that someone couldn't try reprocessing or other adulteration, but it couldn't go on for long. The regulations surrounding dairy are very strict and inspections are frequent. Even the very largest processors are forced to respect the regs.
And honestly, the cost of labor involved in reprocessing would exceed any savings from re-using the expired milk. Plus, check out the pull-by dates of today's products; there's very little milk expiring before it's sold.
That's interesting. I never heard that in all my years in dairying. But I always wondered about expired milk until we started getting expired food from a large chain for many years, from which we fed raw meat (secured but refrigerated) to our 14 Great Pyrenees field figs and multiple house figs and cats. They always had expired milk around, too. I don't think the PMO would allow pasteurized milk (which will putrefy) to be recycled into edible human food.
Thank you for the lesson Robert! Much appreciated. I will search out a reputable source near me in Northern Nevada.
not so easy to find. Even here in Minnesota we drive an hour to buy it.
https://www.rawmilkinstitute.org
thanks Sonia, The ONE Minnesota listed place is not too far from us, 40 min away. We will try it.
Let me know too! I think you can get raw milk in Truckee as well.
Interestingly, there is a county in Nevada that actually still has Certified Milk completely legal. But there's no dairies and only 2000 people in that county.
So it’s impossible to buy. How dumb. Nevada has this reputation of being free thinkers but it only goes so far.