My take after working with federal agencies like osha or hud is that results take a back door to proceedure. Neither incentive nor reward for finding a better way. Instead, every single aberration or misjudgment results in more rules and layers of bureaucracy. Idiots in the ranks aren’t fired and removed. They are cocooned away with new legal hurdles
Unfortunately, they are often promoted beyond their ability, the Peter Principle at work. That's often the only way to get rid of them. It's almost impossible to get rid of deadwood in government positions, but then, that's the very definition of bureaucracy, isn't it?
One big step would be to disallow gov employees moving into pharma jobs by imposing a 5yr minimum period before they can be employed by pharma. Of course this may impede the retiring of gov employees that badly need to be retired.
I worked for the DoD (now DoW) for nearly 50 years. Thirty of those years were in R&D. We had strict rules. I could not accept anything of value (more than $20 any instance more than $50 in any calendar year). When I went to dinner with my industry counterparts we always got separate checks. When we had food brought into the meeting the government people paid. I could not own stock in any company that provided equipment or worked for my organization. If I did, I had to, in writing, recuse myself from any actions involving that company and could not be informed about any actions involving that company. The same restrictions applied if I had developed an invention and a firm paid me licensing fees. I could never work for the other (non-Government) party on any contract over which I had had any influence. And, I couldn’t work for any company over which I’d had influence for 2-5 years after I had last touched that company. Every job I took after I left government had to be reviewed by the Ethics Office before I took it. If I avoided any of these restrictions I was subject to prison and fines and the counterparty would be fined $1M for every infraction. We were reminded of these rules every six months. Attendance was mandatory and roll was taken.
I was utterly amazed to discover that similar rules to avoid conflicts-of-interest were not in place at the NIH, FDA, & CDC.
It would be wonderful, impossibly wonderful, if Americans were restored the right to try. If the FDA (aka Big Ag or Big Pharma) does not approve, the wise seller would require a waiver to be signed where the purchaser acknowledges the FDA's lack of approval and his/her awareness of the most significant known risks. Then we once again have the right to buy less perishable unwashed eggs, unpasteurized cheese, or wholesome raw milk. Then we have the right to try LI-76 (autism), ARINA-76 (cystic fibrosis), or Ivermectin (COVID).
In other words, wouldn't it be wonderful, impossibly wonderful, if the US government began treating us more like grownups with God-given rights, and less like their wards requiring unending paternalistic oversight and control?
2. Remove liability protections from all Pharma drugs and vaccines (currently vaccines only, but could spread).
3. Rescind public health emergency declarations (RFK Jr. could do this).
4. CUT these massive alphabet agencies to bare bones to encourage excellence and discourage bureaucratic nonsense.
5. Remove incentive payments for alphabet agency scientist's patents.
6. Stop taking money from Big Pharma for alphabet agency fast tracking and other goodies.
7. Restore honest science.
We recently listened to American Thought Leaders interview with NIH head Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and did not find it comforting. Dr. B likely trying hard, but just taking wee academic steps from our perspective:
I am not surprised. He, like most others found in academia, are STILL mostly brainwashed in the precepts of the "sysetem". What is really needed is someone appointed not afraid to step OUT of the box. Steve Kirsch, for example.
Many non-brainwashed candidates would have been better, though I doubt Mr. Kirsch (despite his many good qualities) would play well with others. Do listen to the interview if you have time. We have an uphill battle, indeed!
Great respect for Dr. B's work on Great Barrington Declaration at a time when few would step up with any commonsense approaches, but we need a real shakeup at NIH. Still too much Pharma capture, if not at the top, certainly with the turtles all the way down.
"Patients seek relief from symptoms, not improved laboratory values."
While that may be true, what patients need is cure, not relief from symptoms. That doesn't occur with conventional Western medicine, since they never look for root cause to begin with. I've only found that with alternative medical models, and the PTB, including the FDA, have gone out of their way to block any alternatives to drug and cut from reaching public notice.
These observations, once again, need to be read again and again (or shoved down someone's throat) by the people who can make a change. I know these writings will get to the appropriate hands, your analysis is critical and crucial.
I'm hopelessly Y chromosome, so I want to fix these paradoxes. I see our patent process as a glaring culprit. Yet I am a believer in rewarding beneficial discoveries. I'm told of native villages that reward their community doctor when they are well / healthy. Not when they are sick. I cannot demonstrate the specific path, but rewarding health more than sickness is worthy of investment.
There are safe drugs already in use the FDA is trying to take away. Natural thyroid meds, drugs that many thousands if not millions of people rely on are scheduled to be removed from the marketplace this year. Many people with low thyroid cannot tolerate Pharma's synthetic T4 only product and we will be left with nothing. The democrats are also looking to use the FDA to get rid of homeopathy. How does one stop this machine.
Again, you make an excellent case here. Surely this issue needs to be addressed.
A more receptive ASD child can make a difference in demands for care. Both the child and the parents/caregivers can benefit. A cystic fibrosis patient being able to breath better would be a clear win.
I strikes me that such enhancements need a catagory and process of their own. To me that is a possibility that should be explored and pursued. The issue of funding to enable compliance should be a part of the review. Every step toward a more patient significant circumstances improvement should be given consideration for an opportunity to succeed.
This is a MAHA opportunities time. Beneficial opportunities need to be timely pursued. Such positive circumstances very likely will not come again any time soon.
Thank you for bringing it up and in a worthy DC publication. Hoping this will generate attention and action!
Waiting until someone retires is often futile since their minion(s) takes their place who is also looking to industry for a future job. Just about everyone who retires brags to FDA colleagues about their future position they got with industry before they are out the door (such as being VP of xyz @ X).
A problem has been created, grown out of control and now has been broadcast. A pronouncement has been made and is one of sound judgment....
"The choice is ours: reform a broken system, or watch American innovation—and American patients—continue paying the price."
Now, how do We, as citizens with the right to non corrupt medical well being, fight this injustice?
Bureaucracy is large and well entrenched. What weapon/s do I have, already being willing to fight for my rights? I write here, and hope my and others' words can reach the right people, but is that enough? I send emails to my Congresspersons and Senators and receive Minion form letters back. I've joined the MAHA Zoom meetings and listened in. I try to talk to a younger generation to impart vital information. Do I need to take my own person and voice and signs and bullhorn to the FDA building (or for that matter, any/all government buildings)? Is there a Citizen's Army being raised to rally and conquer this out of control Beast? I know there is Action but is it big enough because I recognize Action is way more effective than mere Words. (And please, Action Does Not = Calls for Acts of Violence)!
The nascent biotech industry, and the vulnerably population of hypopituitary dwarfs and I personally benefitted from the Orphan Drug act in the early 1980s. Human Growth Hormone (HGH) was only available from two sources and both were very limited and rationed - but government subsidized. Both were made by extracting and purifying the HGH protein from glands harvested from human cadavers, a costly, technically challenging and small scale lab process.
As of 1978 Genentech had sequenced HGH and inserted it into the plasmid of a lab strain of eColi. This was to become the first commercial product by a small start-up “recombinant DNA” company.
By 1980 the Company began purification process scale-up in my 1 room “pilot plant” with initial target of 500 vials every two weeks. I was the Company’s chromatography scale up expert so the many step process was literally In My Hands ( with 3-5 assistants.)
We did not expect HGH to be a financially important product - just a proof that we, a small Science company, could make a clinically viable product.
By 1983 we had done Phase 1 and Phase 3 trials and submited our first NDA, which was returned with request for more data. That request was well justified given our new technology and patient needs being met ( though sparsely) by the subsidized, cadaver derived product.
Then it was discovered that a large fraction of the cadaver derived HGH ( some said over 30%) was irreverably and indetectably contaminated by a Prion particle causing the human version of “mad cow disease”.
The FDA immediately terminated all government supplied HGH and requested resubmission of All the data we had And worked with us to enable free distribution of our, now, Orphan Drug under Compassionate Use Protocol. Essentially we supplied every patient we could, as if in Clinical Trial, under strict but cooperative oversight.
In the delay since first submission I had been able to hire and train more assistants, perform and qualify a 5 fold scaleup, move into a larger “plant”, reduce cycle time and remove extra “bands” discovered by advanced QC technology. ( this Should Have Been Done before that crude COVID antigen / mRNA mixture was ever place in those LNPs etc and distributed - but I digress.)
The entire Company was much better prepared to support a commercial market when HGH was finally approved in 1985.
As far as I know, no US patients had to be denied treatment for more than 3 months during their critical growth years.
Proof that high tech start ups and government regulators can get good results for The People if everyone involved is honest, open and very hard working.
FDA Drug review discussion needs a deeper dive. Fast Track, Priority Review and EAU were Big Pharma initiatives to generate more dollars for the bottom line. The 1986 Vaccine NO liability act should have been included. Congress approved all these pro Rockefeller/Allopathic medicine model initiatives because the clueless Congressman receive bias Big Pharma Lobby input and it is designed to controlled and keep chemical intervention as the only solution for disease states and has failed miserably. All you have to do is review the history of drugs marketed since WWII that have caused great harm including death that have been removed from the market place AFTER approval by FDA gate keepers that are poorly educated in how the human body functions. FDA is today captive to drug companies that they are suppose to regulate to keep deadly drugs off the market. The failure is monumental. Deadly HIV drugs, Deadly Chemo drugs, Deadly Nsaids, Deadly Narcotics like Oxycontin, Deadly weight loss products like Fen-phen, (coming soon GLP1) Deadly statin drugs, SSRI's that are addicting, the list is long and has resulted by one estimate in 100 billion dollars in fines and etc. since WWII. NO CRIMINAL LIABILITY FOR RESEARCH FRAUD. In spite of this the march goes on and NOTHING has changed! We still have around 500 drugs with a black box warning on the market that are prescribed that can cause death, and includes a cosmetic with no life saving attributes called Botox which is a vanity product. The FDA has to be revamped from the bottom up. All physicians should be vetted for being objective and non-bias. When Merck hires the FDA vaccine gatekeeper for a $1 million salary to facilitate approval of vaccines this behavior has to stop! When she left Merck she returned to NIH and is imbedded for life. Shameful. In addition, the ADR system for monitoring the harm created needs to be managed outside the FDA for independent and objective monitoring. NOT USED TO HIDE THE FDA FAILURES! VAERS system has reported 47,000 RNA injected associated deaths, which is less than 5% of reality based on passed reviews and analysis of drugs that kill.. TOTALLY IGNORED! Death by Medicine IS REAL and it begins in Research laboratories funded and controlled by BIG Pharma. Read Gary Null's book called Death by Medicine. RNA debacle is just the latest and is being ignored by the gate keepers. That includes the Fatal Fauci Medical protocols that were incentivized and embraced by hospitals to treat Covid cases. We have lost our way in medical treatment and President Trump and RFK Jr. know it and there is great opposition to fix healthcare in the USA because it is the # 1 main drug money making machine in the world. I lay the blame at the foot of our Congressman in DC for being beholding to the medical money machine rather than their constituents. To make matters worst, our Congressman allow RX Consumer advertising to the tune of 5- 6 billion dollars a year that educate the public that drugs make you feel good. The fact that half the Senators are not running for re-election in 2026 should mean they fix the problems before they leave. I doubt they have the will and the courage to do the right thing. My rant for the day!
I worked in then FAA for 25 years. Controller, union organizer and regional VP and supervisor. to us it was known as the rule by death agency. No meaningful actions taken until someone dies. The main reason was the dual mandate to the FAA, safety and promoting flying. With the airlines squarely behind #2, who do think got the FAA's ear more often? Who was in charge of boarding security on 9/11? The airlines. No scanners back then because the airlines said they were to expensive. One cause of the recent accident in DC where the helicopter hit the regional jet was too many helicopter routes through such congested sir space. Tells you all you need to know.
There are inherently governmental functions and non inherent governmental functions. Safety of the airspace is inherently governmental. Promoting the flying industry is not. We had strict rules for what we could accept also. One corporate entity on the airport had a Christmas party for just the controllers. It had gone on for many years before the FAA said we couldn't attend anymore. Conflict of interest because we might treat them better. The irony was, they were already treated better because we knew the pilots, they knew us and we knew what the could and would do to help us out. DUH!
My take after working with federal agencies like osha or hud is that results take a back door to proceedure. Neither incentive nor reward for finding a better way. Instead, every single aberration or misjudgment results in more rules and layers of bureaucracy. Idiots in the ranks aren’t fired and removed. They are cocooned away with new legal hurdles
good observations
Unfortunately, they are often promoted beyond their ability, the Peter Principle at work. That's often the only way to get rid of them. It's almost impossible to get rid of deadwood in government positions, but then, that's the very definition of bureaucracy, isn't it?
One big step would be to disallow gov employees moving into pharma jobs by imposing a 5yr minimum period before they can be employed by pharma. Of course this may impede the retiring of gov employees that badly need to be retired.
I worked for the DoD (now DoW) for nearly 50 years. Thirty of those years were in R&D. We had strict rules. I could not accept anything of value (more than $20 any instance more than $50 in any calendar year). When I went to dinner with my industry counterparts we always got separate checks. When we had food brought into the meeting the government people paid. I could not own stock in any company that provided equipment or worked for my organization. If I did, I had to, in writing, recuse myself from any actions involving that company and could not be informed about any actions involving that company. The same restrictions applied if I had developed an invention and a firm paid me licensing fees. I could never work for the other (non-Government) party on any contract over which I had had any influence. And, I couldn’t work for any company over which I’d had influence for 2-5 years after I had last touched that company. Every job I took after I left government had to be reviewed by the Ethics Office before I took it. If I avoided any of these restrictions I was subject to prison and fines and the counterparty would be fined $1M for every infraction. We were reminded of these rules every six months. Attendance was mandatory and roll was taken.
I was utterly amazed to discover that similar rules to avoid conflicts-of-interest were not in place at the NIH, FDA, & CDC.
A no-one tells them what to do attitude they impose onto folks who should know better
It would be wonderful, impossibly wonderful, if Americans were restored the right to try. If the FDA (aka Big Ag or Big Pharma) does not approve, the wise seller would require a waiver to be signed where the purchaser acknowledges the FDA's lack of approval and his/her awareness of the most significant known risks. Then we once again have the right to buy less perishable unwashed eggs, unpasteurized cheese, or wholesome raw milk. Then we have the right to try LI-76 (autism), ARINA-76 (cystic fibrosis), or Ivermectin (COVID).
In other words, wouldn't it be wonderful, impossibly wonderful, if the US government began treating us more like grownups with God-given rights, and less like their wards requiring unending paternalistic oversight and control?
Is that too much to ask?
YES, I will second that.
NOTE: see my post above which would complement your idea. . .
I though the right to try was given by executive order a few years ago. What happened to it?
Other essential steps (among many):
1. Repeal PREP Act.
2. Remove liability protections from all Pharma drugs and vaccines (currently vaccines only, but could spread).
3. Rescind public health emergency declarations (RFK Jr. could do this).
4. CUT these massive alphabet agencies to bare bones to encourage excellence and discourage bureaucratic nonsense.
5. Remove incentive payments for alphabet agency scientist's patents.
6. Stop taking money from Big Pharma for alphabet agency fast tracking and other goodies.
7. Restore honest science.
We recently listened to American Thought Leaders interview with NIH head Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and did not find it comforting. Dr. B likely trying hard, but just taking wee academic steps from our perspective:
* Video (may require Epoch Times subscription): https://www.theepochtimes.com/epochtv/exclusive-dr-jay-bhattacharya-on-how-the-nih-is-rethinking-autism-dei-china-ties-and-gain-of-function-5983651?utm_source=ref_share&utm_campaign=copy
* Apple podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exclusive-dr-jay-bhattacharya-on-how-the-nih-is/id1471411980?i=1000749170808
I am not surprised. He, like most others found in academia, are STILL mostly brainwashed in the precepts of the "sysetem". What is really needed is someone appointed not afraid to step OUT of the box. Steve Kirsch, for example.
Many non-brainwashed candidates would have been better, though I doubt Mr. Kirsch (despite his many good qualities) would play well with others. Do listen to the interview if you have time. We have an uphill battle, indeed!
Great respect for Dr. B's work on Great Barrington Declaration at a time when few would step up with any commonsense approaches, but we need a real shakeup at NIH. Still too much Pharma capture, if not at the top, certainly with the turtles all the way down.
So, bottom line; greed overrides actual healthcare.
"Patients seek relief from symptoms, not improved laboratory values."
While that may be true, what patients need is cure, not relief from symptoms. That doesn't occur with conventional Western medicine, since they never look for root cause to begin with. I've only found that with alternative medical models, and the PTB, including the FDA, have gone out of their way to block any alternatives to drug and cut from reaching public notice.
These observations, once again, need to be read again and again (or shoved down someone's throat) by the people who can make a change. I know these writings will get to the appropriate hands, your analysis is critical and crucial.
Moving both the production and the innovation offshore seems to have been the goal.
I'm hopelessly Y chromosome, so I want to fix these paradoxes. I see our patent process as a glaring culprit. Yet I am a believer in rewarding beneficial discoveries. I'm told of native villages that reward their community doctor when they are well / healthy. Not when they are sick. I cannot demonstrate the specific path, but rewarding health more than sickness is worthy of investment.
There are safe drugs already in use the FDA is trying to take away. Natural thyroid meds, drugs that many thousands if not millions of people rely on are scheduled to be removed from the marketplace this year. Many people with low thyroid cannot tolerate Pharma's synthetic T4 only product and we will be left with nothing. The democrats are also looking to use the FDA to get rid of homeopathy. How does one stop this machine.
Again, you make an excellent case here. Surely this issue needs to be addressed.
A more receptive ASD child can make a difference in demands for care. Both the child and the parents/caregivers can benefit. A cystic fibrosis patient being able to breath better would be a clear win.
I strikes me that such enhancements need a catagory and process of their own. To me that is a possibility that should be explored and pursued. The issue of funding to enable compliance should be a part of the review. Every step toward a more patient significant circumstances improvement should be given consideration for an opportunity to succeed.
This is a MAHA opportunities time. Beneficial opportunities need to be timely pursued. Such positive circumstances very likely will not come again any time soon.
Thank you for bringing it up and in a worthy DC publication. Hoping this will generate attention and action!
Happy Valentine's Day and safe travels!
Waiting until someone retires is often futile since their minion(s) takes their place who is also looking to industry for a future job. Just about everyone who retires brags to FDA colleagues about their future position they got with industry before they are out the door (such as being VP of xyz @ X).
A problem has been created, grown out of control and now has been broadcast. A pronouncement has been made and is one of sound judgment....
"The choice is ours: reform a broken system, or watch American innovation—and American patients—continue paying the price."
Now, how do We, as citizens with the right to non corrupt medical well being, fight this injustice?
Bureaucracy is large and well entrenched. What weapon/s do I have, already being willing to fight for my rights? I write here, and hope my and others' words can reach the right people, but is that enough? I send emails to my Congresspersons and Senators and receive Minion form letters back. I've joined the MAHA Zoom meetings and listened in. I try to talk to a younger generation to impart vital information. Do I need to take my own person and voice and signs and bullhorn to the FDA building (or for that matter, any/all government buildings)? Is there a Citizen's Army being raised to rally and conquer this out of control Beast? I know there is Action but is it big enough because I recognize Action is way more effective than mere Words. (And please, Action Does Not = Calls for Acts of Violence)!
This enquiring mind would like to know.
The nascent biotech industry, and the vulnerably population of hypopituitary dwarfs and I personally benefitted from the Orphan Drug act in the early 1980s. Human Growth Hormone (HGH) was only available from two sources and both were very limited and rationed - but government subsidized. Both were made by extracting and purifying the HGH protein from glands harvested from human cadavers, a costly, technically challenging and small scale lab process.
As of 1978 Genentech had sequenced HGH and inserted it into the plasmid of a lab strain of eColi. This was to become the first commercial product by a small start-up “recombinant DNA” company.
By 1980 the Company began purification process scale-up in my 1 room “pilot plant” with initial target of 500 vials every two weeks. I was the Company’s chromatography scale up expert so the many step process was literally In My Hands ( with 3-5 assistants.)
We did not expect HGH to be a financially important product - just a proof that we, a small Science company, could make a clinically viable product.
By 1983 we had done Phase 1 and Phase 3 trials and submited our first NDA, which was returned with request for more data. That request was well justified given our new technology and patient needs being met ( though sparsely) by the subsidized, cadaver derived product.
Then it was discovered that a large fraction of the cadaver derived HGH ( some said over 30%) was irreverably and indetectably contaminated by a Prion particle causing the human version of “mad cow disease”.
The FDA immediately terminated all government supplied HGH and requested resubmission of All the data we had And worked with us to enable free distribution of our, now, Orphan Drug under Compassionate Use Protocol. Essentially we supplied every patient we could, as if in Clinical Trial, under strict but cooperative oversight.
In the delay since first submission I had been able to hire and train more assistants, perform and qualify a 5 fold scaleup, move into a larger “plant”, reduce cycle time and remove extra “bands” discovered by advanced QC technology. ( this Should Have Been Done before that crude COVID antigen / mRNA mixture was ever place in those LNPs etc and distributed - but I digress.)
The entire Company was much better prepared to support a commercial market when HGH was finally approved in 1985.
As far as I know, no US patients had to be denied treatment for more than 3 months during their critical growth years.
Proof that high tech start ups and government regulators can get good results for The People if everyone involved is honest, open and very hard working.
FDA Drug review discussion needs a deeper dive. Fast Track, Priority Review and EAU were Big Pharma initiatives to generate more dollars for the bottom line. The 1986 Vaccine NO liability act should have been included. Congress approved all these pro Rockefeller/Allopathic medicine model initiatives because the clueless Congressman receive bias Big Pharma Lobby input and it is designed to controlled and keep chemical intervention as the only solution for disease states and has failed miserably. All you have to do is review the history of drugs marketed since WWII that have caused great harm including death that have been removed from the market place AFTER approval by FDA gate keepers that are poorly educated in how the human body functions. FDA is today captive to drug companies that they are suppose to regulate to keep deadly drugs off the market. The failure is monumental. Deadly HIV drugs, Deadly Chemo drugs, Deadly Nsaids, Deadly Narcotics like Oxycontin, Deadly weight loss products like Fen-phen, (coming soon GLP1) Deadly statin drugs, SSRI's that are addicting, the list is long and has resulted by one estimate in 100 billion dollars in fines and etc. since WWII. NO CRIMINAL LIABILITY FOR RESEARCH FRAUD. In spite of this the march goes on and NOTHING has changed! We still have around 500 drugs with a black box warning on the market that are prescribed that can cause death, and includes a cosmetic with no life saving attributes called Botox which is a vanity product. The FDA has to be revamped from the bottom up. All physicians should be vetted for being objective and non-bias. When Merck hires the FDA vaccine gatekeeper for a $1 million salary to facilitate approval of vaccines this behavior has to stop! When she left Merck she returned to NIH and is imbedded for life. Shameful. In addition, the ADR system for monitoring the harm created needs to be managed outside the FDA for independent and objective monitoring. NOT USED TO HIDE THE FDA FAILURES! VAERS system has reported 47,000 RNA injected associated deaths, which is less than 5% of reality based on passed reviews and analysis of drugs that kill.. TOTALLY IGNORED! Death by Medicine IS REAL and it begins in Research laboratories funded and controlled by BIG Pharma. Read Gary Null's book called Death by Medicine. RNA debacle is just the latest and is being ignored by the gate keepers. That includes the Fatal Fauci Medical protocols that were incentivized and embraced by hospitals to treat Covid cases. We have lost our way in medical treatment and President Trump and RFK Jr. know it and there is great opposition to fix healthcare in the USA because it is the # 1 main drug money making machine in the world. I lay the blame at the foot of our Congressman in DC for being beholding to the medical money machine rather than their constituents. To make matters worst, our Congressman allow RX Consumer advertising to the tune of 5- 6 billion dollars a year that educate the public that drugs make you feel good. The fact that half the Senators are not running for re-election in 2026 should mean they fix the problems before they leave. I doubt they have the will and the courage to do the right thing. My rant for the day!
I worked in then FAA for 25 years. Controller, union organizer and regional VP and supervisor. to us it was known as the rule by death agency. No meaningful actions taken until someone dies. The main reason was the dual mandate to the FAA, safety and promoting flying. With the airlines squarely behind #2, who do think got the FAA's ear more often? Who was in charge of boarding security on 9/11? The airlines. No scanners back then because the airlines said they were to expensive. One cause of the recent accident in DC where the helicopter hit the regional jet was too many helicopter routes through such congested sir space. Tells you all you need to know.
There are inherently governmental functions and non inherent governmental functions. Safety of the airspace is inherently governmental. Promoting the flying industry is not. We had strict rules for what we could accept also. One corporate entity on the airport had a Christmas party for just the controllers. It had gone on for many years before the FAA said we couldn't attend anymore. Conflict of interest because we might treat them better. The irony was, they were already treated better because we knew the pilots, they knew us and we knew what the could and would do to help us out. DUH!