I’ve never had a flu shot. Don’t believe in them. I rarely get sick. I have a regiment of vitamins and supplements I take daily and eat whole organic foods. I don’t exercise to the extreme but will walk with my wife and the mutts. I tend to my small garden in the summers and do projects around the house. I get a good sweat on at least once a week if not more and I’m not changing what ain’t broke.
Last time I had a flu shot was in 2015 and I got sick. Thanks to the whole pandemic fiasco, I’ve started looking into vaccines, and five years later, have complied over 20 pieces of literature on how vaccines cause harm yet there’s so much propaganda to see it: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/the-complete-vaccine-harm-profile
Is there a chart of birth years and flu type exposure? Refusing all shots based on covid doesn't appear smart in the older population, and it seems you're suggesting 65+ may benefit from it. As someone who has received a single flu shot in my life, using instead a single high dose vitamin A oral dose has kept me flu free. Enormous vaccine hesitancy here!
I'm part of the older population (I'm 80) and I think refusing all shots is a smart move. I'm healthier than everyone else I know who runs out to get their shots.
Is historical data like this reliable in a population like the U.S. that is one of the unhealthiest populations on earth, fed lots of misinformation on many topics relevant to longevity, biology and health, consumes untold pharmaceuticals and has been subjected to a considerable number of environmental factors doing daily damage to the body. In other words, how do these immunological aging data points compare to a population in a country or region with longer life spans, friendlier environments and healthier populations? This would seem to have implications far beyond a flu vaccine. Not sure the answer; that's why I'm asking.
Very interesting point! Given how complicated the analysis Dr Malone presents, our population averaged "state of health" (biome bases?) Might create different results, might be a true root cause that overpowers vaccine function vs other countries, or the theoretical. Complicated stuff.
“The benefit for adults over 75, where the number needed to vaccinate to prevent one hospitalization is approximately 390 to 540 in a well-matched season, is genuine and clinically meaningful.”
Maybe statistically and clinically meaningful. But where are the competing costs to such a high administration rate - other respiratory illness, missed work and school.
We seem to miss the big picture that there are trade offs in taking a medical intervention. Do Vitamin C or D imprint for specific birth cohort years? I doubt it
Maybe a public health focus on batting for singles (healthy eating, sunshine) would better serve the majority instead of swinging for the home run (medical intervention) every year…and striking out frequently.
Great topic, helpful Teaching for us, Docs Malone. After this week's Rogue Judge's actions, we realize, it's STILL our good RESOURCES, that are there for us, NOT compromised orgs like the AAP!
Folks, Moms, Dads - become regulars on the IMAhealth.org's site. Use their SEARCH - enter prevent flu, or just flu, or whatever medical topic on your mind. Last week's IMA weekly video was with the beloved, Dr. Marik, his Cancer treatment updates.
Like the prior commenters I have so many questions about the flu shots, pneumonia shots and any other foreign bodies introduced into my body! Only had one flu shot in my lifetime, but I don’t seem susceptible to the annual flu viruses as I remain healthy even when exposed to carriers. I took one flu shot about 10 years ago. It did not protect me from the flu, as I had the worst flu ever that winter. I was 60 years old. I’ve only taken the 2 dose Shingrex since then. I have taken no COVID, no pneumonia shots. So basically my immune system seems to be free of all the recommended shots my Doc use to harp on until I told her to please stop as I don’t feel we know enough about our individual reactions to vaccines and since we don’t I’m not convinced the benefits outweigh possible bad outcomes. Maybe I should look into flu and pneumonia shots as the article suggests there may be a very small benefit for a 70 year old.
Interesting data and valuable information for the indoctrinated population regarding flu vaccination. My clients consistently took the vaccination and always reported getting sick anyhow and yet never questioned the effectiveness. It seems as if the immune system can certainly be strengthened no matter what age, and that is the key to health anyhow. The ways to this outcome have been discussed numerous times and most people here know the methods, others in the pharma world, not so much. This info needs to get to these people pronto!
I'll never get a flu shot no matter what the data claims. Never have, never will. I'm 64, on no medications, and am extremely active outdoors getting the benefits of natural sunshine, fresh air, and sweat. In fact, I'm headed outside right now for an early 4-mile hike to start my Saturday.
The best explanation, I have seen, for why the flu shot doesn’t seem to work.
My questions are how does short and long term side effects of taking year after year flu shots factor into creating a risk / reward chart to decide if you should ever get one? There seems to me that you could be creating an accumulation of chemicals you don’t want in your body?
Or what age to maybe start taking a flu shot?
Would it be better to know which flu you had and either get that shot for that particular year or avoid it if you had a different strain as a child?
How that complex information and concept was made understandable is a real gift that God has given you Malone. I don’t say I fully grasped every specific data point but I have an understanding that is a solid start. Thank you
Interesting the general skepticism in our group of Malone readers! As with others, I ponder the "effectiveness" numbers and what they mean in whe whole scheme of life (don't disagree with the math but not sure the math, one detail, is that significant in the whole overall health (eating real food, insuring adequate vitamin, etc. Levels, lifestyle like we were designed for sun, exercise, etc). If we all lived like that, would vaccines change the equation at all? Since we don't, do vaccines only "help" those who don't or can't live maximally, and how much, at what cost? How much worse would we all be if no one got vaccines?
If 75% of annual deaths occur to individuals 65 and older (Google), and 2/3 (66%) flu deaths occur in individuals 65 and older (article), then older folks actually have a smaller % deaths from flu than youing folks.
The number needed to treat for all 65 and older with high dose flu vaccine from the Danish study was about 2,000. Using AI results for cost differentials between high dose and standard dose, I approximate about $2 billion additional cost annually for high dosage shots. With 61.2 million age 65 and older in 2024 and 70% vaccinated, my calculation for cost is about $100k per hospitalization avoided.
How should societal cost figure into this discussion as well?
Have you ever looked into how effective taking allergy shots every week for a year is? I am curious what you think. Allergy shot have been recommended to, but after Covid, I am skeptical that they actually work as advertised.
I’ve never had a flu shot. Don’t believe in them. I rarely get sick. I have a regiment of vitamins and supplements I take daily and eat whole organic foods. I don’t exercise to the extreme but will walk with my wife and the mutts. I tend to my small garden in the summers and do projects around the house. I get a good sweat on at least once a week if not more and I’m not changing what ain’t broke.
Ditto. If counted, we'd skew all the data!
Last time I had a flu shot was in 2015 and I got sick. Thanks to the whole pandemic fiasco, I’ve started looking into vaccines, and five years later, have complied over 20 pieces of literature on how vaccines cause harm yet there’s so much propaganda to see it: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/the-complete-vaccine-harm-profile
Ironically, today, I just wrote a piece on how modern society is making us sicker, vaccines being part of modern society: https://unorthodoxy.substack.com/p/to-live-longer-americans-will-need
Staying away from modern society and doing natural things, like working, gets us healthy. Praying many more people begin to realize such.
Same thoughts
Is there a chart of birth years and flu type exposure? Refusing all shots based on covid doesn't appear smart in the older population, and it seems you're suggesting 65+ may benefit from it. As someone who has received a single flu shot in my life, using instead a single high dose vitamin A oral dose has kept me flu free. Enormous vaccine hesitancy here!
I'm part of the older population (I'm 80) and I think refusing all shots is a smart move. I'm healthier than everyone else I know who runs out to get their shots.
Agreed!
Is historical data like this reliable in a population like the U.S. that is one of the unhealthiest populations on earth, fed lots of misinformation on many topics relevant to longevity, biology and health, consumes untold pharmaceuticals and has been subjected to a considerable number of environmental factors doing daily damage to the body. In other words, how do these immunological aging data points compare to a population in a country or region with longer life spans, friendlier environments and healthier populations? This would seem to have implications far beyond a flu vaccine. Not sure the answer; that's why I'm asking.
Very interesting point! Given how complicated the analysis Dr Malone presents, our population averaged "state of health" (biome bases?) Might create different results, might be a true root cause that overpowers vaccine function vs other countries, or the theoretical. Complicated stuff.
“The benefit for adults over 75, where the number needed to vaccinate to prevent one hospitalization is approximately 390 to 540 in a well-matched season, is genuine and clinically meaningful.”
Maybe statistically and clinically meaningful. But where are the competing costs to such a high administration rate - other respiratory illness, missed work and school.
We seem to miss the big picture that there are trade offs in taking a medical intervention. Do Vitamin C or D imprint for specific birth cohort years? I doubt it
Maybe a public health focus on batting for singles (healthy eating, sunshine) would better serve the majority instead of swinging for the home run (medical intervention) every year…and striking out frequently.
"Low Vitamin D Season" https://imahealth.org/flu-season-update-are-superbugs-really-spreading/
Great topic, helpful Teaching for us, Docs Malone. After this week's Rogue Judge's actions, we realize, it's STILL our good RESOURCES, that are there for us, NOT compromised orgs like the AAP!
Folks, Moms, Dads - become regulars on the IMAhealth.org's site. Use their SEARCH - enter prevent flu, or just flu, or whatever medical topic on your mind. Last week's IMA weekly video was with the beloved, Dr. Marik, his Cancer treatment updates.
Like the prior commenters I have so many questions about the flu shots, pneumonia shots and any other foreign bodies introduced into my body! Only had one flu shot in my lifetime, but I don’t seem susceptible to the annual flu viruses as I remain healthy even when exposed to carriers. I took one flu shot about 10 years ago. It did not protect me from the flu, as I had the worst flu ever that winter. I was 60 years old. I’ve only taken the 2 dose Shingrex since then. I have taken no COVID, no pneumonia shots. So basically my immune system seems to be free of all the recommended shots my Doc use to harp on until I told her to please stop as I don’t feel we know enough about our individual reactions to vaccines and since we don’t I’m not convinced the benefits outweigh possible bad outcomes. Maybe I should look into flu and pneumonia shots as the article suggests there may be a very small benefit for a 70 year old.
Interesting data and valuable information for the indoctrinated population regarding flu vaccination. My clients consistently took the vaccination and always reported getting sick anyhow and yet never questioned the effectiveness. It seems as if the immune system can certainly be strengthened no matter what age, and that is the key to health anyhow. The ways to this outcome have been discussed numerous times and most people here know the methods, others in the pharma world, not so much. This info needs to get to these people pronto!
Does this work the same with the pneumonia vax? A friend just had a bad reaction after her doctor bullied her nicely into taking it.
I'll never get a flu shot no matter what the data claims. Never have, never will. I'm 64, on no medications, and am extremely active outdoors getting the benefits of natural sunshine, fresh air, and sweat. In fact, I'm headed outside right now for an early 4-mile hike to start my Saturday.
Dr Malone,
The best explanation, I have seen, for why the flu shot doesn’t seem to work.
My questions are how does short and long term side effects of taking year after year flu shots factor into creating a risk / reward chart to decide if you should ever get one? There seems to me that you could be creating an accumulation of chemicals you don’t want in your body?
Or what age to maybe start taking a flu shot?
Would it be better to know which flu you had and either get that shot for that particular year or avoid it if you had a different strain as a child?
Wait. You want the government to be honest?
How that complex information and concept was made understandable is a real gift that God has given you Malone. I don’t say I fully grasped every specific data point but I have an understanding that is a solid start. Thank you
Interesting the general skepticism in our group of Malone readers! As with others, I ponder the "effectiveness" numbers and what they mean in whe whole scheme of life (don't disagree with the math but not sure the math, one detail, is that significant in the whole overall health (eating real food, insuring adequate vitamin, etc. Levels, lifestyle like we were designed for sun, exercise, etc). If we all lived like that, would vaccines change the equation at all? Since we don't, do vaccines only "help" those who don't or can't live maximally, and how much, at what cost? How much worse would we all be if no one got vaccines?
If 75% of annual deaths occur to individuals 65 and older (Google), and 2/3 (66%) flu deaths occur in individuals 65 and older (article), then older folks actually have a smaller % deaths from flu than youing folks.
The number needed to treat for all 65 and older with high dose flu vaccine from the Danish study was about 2,000. Using AI results for cost differentials between high dose and standard dose, I approximate about $2 billion additional cost annually for high dosage shots. With 61.2 million age 65 and older in 2024 and 70% vaccinated, my calculation for cost is about $100k per hospitalization avoided.
How should societal cost figure into this discussion as well?
Have you ever looked into how effective taking allergy shots every week for a year is? I am curious what you think. Allergy shot have been recommended to, but after Covid, I am skeptical that they actually work as advertised.